Indian Music Forums

Dealers making plugs, enough! MELODIC INSTRUMENTS
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84 posts Andius 84 posts
Andius
Would be good to get away from non-direct sitar subjects. PLEASE?
I value the knowledge I gain from this forum, especially the physical construction, tips and trick from someone like Tony K who knows the instruments from the inside out. Very valuable. So he's a dealer? SO WHAT.

If any dealer posts a really blatant selling pitch on this forum, which I have NOT seen, solution is simple. Treat the post like I do all junk mail: ignore it and make a mental note to never deal with them.

They all know that if we want anything we know where to contact them; hats off to them, they obviously have more sense than to put people off by annoying them.

Now, about taraf bridges.............. :wink:
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sindura 8 posts
sindura
Hello,

I am going to try to be as diplomatic as possible with this. I have been a passive observer on this forum for a while now, and I have noticed that some dealers on this forum (I'm not going to mention names) plug their stores. I personally find this very self serving and corrupting. This forum exists for the dissemination of knowledge, not as free advertising (and its aggressive advertising in my opinion). I know there are some dealers on this forum that restrain themselves in this capacity and I think that is commendable. Taking advantage of this forum for business gains is an offence to the ICM community, this forum, and a slap in the face to the members. I'm sorry if this is so impassioned, but I have bit my tongue every time I have seen these plugs over the last months and I couldn't bite down any longer.

Thank you.

        Sindura
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Anonymous 987 posts
Anonymous
Dear Sindura,
I wholeheartedly agree. Your clear observations and concise conclusions while they may be unpopular are neverertheless both valued and necessary. Thank you.

Bobu

BTW - you may also wish to post your thread within "These Forums" section where the administrators are more likely to respond.
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rex 674 posts
rex
I actually don't mind the dealer's plugs so much, as it could possibly be useful to some people who are looking for equipment or instruments and don't know where to find it. the last sitar I bought was 15 years ago, and I will never buy another. I get my strings from one reliable source, have done so for years, and if I need any sound equipment, will go to my local music shop. So, I know I'll never use any the services or products offered by these dealers. When they make their plugs, I just uncousciously block them out and skip to the next reply.

But, one recommendation I would make to the dealers: your plugs would be MUCH more effective if, instead of telling everyone how great your products were, you simply gave helpful, objective advice and let us find your products on our own. As soon as you guys start telling us how great your stuff is, we just think you're out to make a quick buck and you loose all our trust.
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element-82 317 posts
element-82
I think it is a fine line for those dealers to walk. They want to be helpful and maintain a presence here so that people know about them. Some do it better than others, I agree. I remember Lars used to do it well, but that might be because he didn't care too much about the marketting and making money part. I would prefer if sellers were more discrete, maybe a URL in the footer of their mail and people would know how to find them. IMHO. Otherwise, I think their input is valuable here.

Pb
Surbahar Dude (formerly Sitar Dude)
http://sitarplayer.net
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sitarman 599 posts
sitarman
I agree with elemeny 82 (Hey, which element is that anyway? ) I think overt plugs or saying "buy this from me" is not proper, but I have noticed, as opposed to sindura, a very diplomatic and non-pushy approach from the dealers on this forum. (I believe that your response was to the most recent, if I can be specific, by sitarfanatic, about the transfducers he sells at Sitars, etc, since your post came right after that). so, specifically, I noticed the plug too, but it was in keeping with answering the question, in my opinion. Informing about the fact that there is a transducer setup that he sells (and as he said others sell as well) was a legitimate answer to the question. It was short and direct, and I didn't see any big BUY FROM ME push. I think we often learn a lot about instruments from the dealers on this site and several beginners show up here who need to get steered towards a reliable source for their purchases. I believe I too once mentioned that members could contact me through my private email if they need sound gear since that is my profession. I didn't make a big deal of it but being a sitarist I wanted to imply that I would be in a good position to recommend stuff. I see sitar dealers as having valuable contributions to make and, yes, it is a fine line. Lately I have not seen any major offenses, wouldn't you agree?
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trippy monkey 4,281 posts
trippy monkey
All very valid points. Personally, I ignore blatant ads.

BUT
What happens then if someone requires, say, a sitar teacher in my area or near me & I AM a teacher, hypothetically speaking. Do I point them to someone else? Keep quiet?

Nick
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rex 674 posts
rex
Please don't keep quiet Nick, we need to know these things!

My feeling is, if you can help with a question or problem, then help, and if you happen to able to offer a service or product that can fill the need, then please mention it.
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sitarman 599 posts
sitarman
Trippy and Rex- exactly! If the "plug" is actually an answer to a question, while letting somreone know you are available to help them, it is legitimate. A long advertisement of why you are better, blah, blah, blah, would not be. I'm not defending anyone here, but in this specific case, Sitarfanatic mentioined that the transducer was available from several dealers. It wasn't a big plug.
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SitarMac Senior Member 447 posts
SitarMac
I personally don't think its a big deal. I love it when Bharat-ji or Bruce-ji give us a heads up on something new thats come in. I even like it when Keshav and Sitarmaker pop up for an announcement or 2. Who care? They are so few and far between that I don't think they are disruptive. On that note, if there are instruments at the AACM that I think may be desirable, I will try and detail it in pic and recording to those on the forum who might be interested. Like it or not, these guys are the only vehicle to quality instruments. Just my thoughts. Response welcom.
Just a listener now....Was fun while i played though!
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sindura 8 posts
sindura
Sitarman- response was to the most recent, if I can be specific, by sitarfanatic, about the transfducers he sells at Sitars, etc, since your post came right after that). so, specifically, I noticed the plug too, but it was in keeping with answering the question, in my opinion. (Quote)

We seam to have the exact opposite view of sitarfantics fanatical plugs. I was trying to avoid names, but to no avail. There are other members here such as the people at the AACM store, Tony Karasek, and others who are very good at pointing out that their services can satisfy a need someone may have without 'plugging' themselves. I find their tactics tastefull, and respectful. But I find sitarfanatic's tactics aggressive, overbearing, and selfserving. Yes, he is letting people know that Sitarsetc. carries the merchandise, but I do not feel that this forum is a place where a vendor should take advantage of the people who make it up. I have also heard stories of vendors on this site logging on under an alias to bash their competition. I propose that vendors on this site occupy a role that is seperate from buisiness. I feel that AACM, and Mr. Karasek do this exeptionally well. I feel that others do not. If you don't agree, fine, this forum should be a place to exchnage ideas and differenes of opinion, but I don't feel it should be taken advantage of for buisness gains.

Sindura
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Anonymous 987 posts
Anonymous
frankly being a total novice i was glad to see some plugs an recomendations it was some of these that steered me to sitars etc , an i probably wouldnt have found karasek sound and enjoyed purusing tonys collection of beautiful restored sitars , what treasure for the eyes , and i enjoyed looking at the nevermore sitar also , an some of the all black sitars never would have thought of that color but it is very attractive on a sitar , its also nice to hear about where lessons are being held , just my 2 cents worth , 8) Alan
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sitarman 599 posts
sitarman
Sindura, we are in total aggreement about the ethics of keeping the forum "blatent plug-free". If any vendor was actually using an alter ego to get opinions on the forum that would be advantageous to their business, I would be the first to condemn it (well, maybe second after you!) I guess our defference of opinion rests with what is deemed "aggressive" and "blatant". Some plugs ARE necessary. For instance- a person joins the forum and asks about micing a sitar. A couple of posts talk about mics. Then a dealer mentions that there is another way to record or amplify a sitar that might be of interest, in this case a dual transducer. Where are the aggressive and blatent posts? I just don't see them. I learned about synthetic bridges from a post from a dealer on this forum, I believe. It was something like "We have put some synthetic bridges that require less frequent jawari, etc". It implied that the dealer sells them but so what? I don't think a dealer has the obligation to never mention their business. It is one of their credentials. I know where you are coming from., but I don't think dealers should have to refrain from mentioning items they sell when it is in response to a question. The dealers on this forum, to their credit, have never, at least that I've seen, tried to misuse this forum.
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Anonymous 987 posts
Anonymous
Ever notice how there are is Sitar and Tabla shop in every little town in the USA? No??? Could that be because there is very little money in this business? Ever think that just maybe your local sitar shop might be hanging on by a thread and not really have scads of money to advertise. Does it ever occur to some folks that just maybe there might be a little grattitude toward the folks who bust their humps to bring us these instruments? I haven't seen all that much in the way of blatant advertising here. Not at least any that wasn't part of a reply to a question being asked. Also did any of the people who use this forum ever see anything that says it's only for the use of players? It's the same wanker mentality of people who download everything for free and then bitch because there isn't a good shop in town that sells the whole Nikhil Bannerjee catalog. Without all the truckloads of free advice and shared experience from Lars, Bruce, Jeff Whittier, Tony etc etc this forum would be largely the blind leading the blind. Too many primadonnas want to have their cake and eat it. I can just see someone out there with the back of his hand pressed to his forehead and a hanky dangling from his other hand. Moaning. Ooooh I think I am going to faint. I have been violated by a merchant! The hypocrisy of some members is just unbelievable. How much does any forum member pay monthly to use this service? If you don't like what a merchant has to say - show it by not buying from him. If on the other hand you value the breadth of experience and helpful tips that come from merchants, then don't piss on their parade. If you can't see that it is a symbiotic relationship then you are blind.
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sitarman 599 posts
sitarman
Lurker Dude. No argument here.
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sindura 8 posts
sindura
ln,m,
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