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BIG Tabla PERCUSSIVE INSTRUMENTS
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Member 47 posts block Member 47 posts
block
"Pinky" on the jori:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGvJhC9WWx0
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taal 140 posts
taal
Hi;
I have seen Jori, but not this size of tabla before...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSIAEqP2v9I&feature=related
Regards;
Taal
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Khula Bol Singh 16 posts
Khula Bol Singh
What Bhai Gaam ji is playing here is a jori, in fact a jori made by Ustad Bhai Baldeep Singh ji.

When I went to learn from him this summer, he laughed at the size of my Raj Musicals chattu (the jori's dayan) whose head has a diameter of 6.75 inches. He also found the size of my dhamma quite comical.
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sohummusicals 601 posts
sohummusicals
taal wrote:
Hi;
I have seen Jori, but not this size of tabla before...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSIAEqP2v9I&feature=related
The Dayan is not so big, it must be around 6.5" or 6.75"
7.25" dayans are the biggest.
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hbajpai 892 posts
hbajpai
This artist is amazing. Honestly, don't know much about him and would love to learn. Any anecdotes, links, etc. appreciated.

As far as the Dayan is concerned, I agree, the size is not out of the ordinary. As to the baya, the only person that I have seen use a metal, standard bayan that was this big was the big man himself, Thirakawa Khan Saheb.

I recently say Talwalkarji play in person. He is a person with relatively small fingers and he was playing on a 6.75-7" daya and considering this; his tita's were just mind blowing.

For those who have seen Mulgaonkarji play, he plays on a daya shell that is just shy of 6.75.

I just can't imagine the finger strength needed to play on such daya's and yet these maestro's produce the sweatness of a dhinegine and the sharpness of a TiTa...

Sometimes I feel like when the hell will even be able to play 5pct of what these people do :-)
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Diego 124 posts
Diego
Beautiful Dayan (the big one) – the jori dhamma looks like something it might be good to try out at some point.


Big dayans are great fun to play, and a lot easier on the index finger for the naa stroke.
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Vivek 183 posts
Vivek
hbajpai wrote:
I recently say Talwalkarji play in person. He is a person with relatively small fingers and he was playing on a 6.75-7" daya and considering this; his tita's were just mind blowing.

For those who have seen Mulgaonkarji play, he plays on a daya shell that is just shy of 6.75.

I just can't imagine the finger strength needed to play on such daya's and yet these maestro's produce the sweatness of a dhinegine and the sharpness of a TiTa...
On this topic, I am discovering that practicing on big tablas is one of the best ways to improve strength and technique. Our teacher insists that we practice on such dayans (~6.75" tuned to low Eb) and has us spend hours practicing two-finger strokes such as tita, titakita, tirikita taka (with accent on the first 'ti' ) The ability to play strong, crisp, titas and relas on a large tabla makes a tremendous difference in your sound and clarity, especially when you switch back to a small or medium-sized dayan.

- V -
Love All, Serve All
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gavriel 11 posts
gavriel
I saw this video also, really amazing. The big tabla + jori is a great sound!
It also reminds me of conga playing a bit, maybe because of the open hand strikes.
I also saw this video of Pinky Namdhari and Bhai Baldeep Singh and was amazed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69DxxalakxE&feature=related

Is there is thing with the Sikhs and big tablas? :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3kGKcTRinQ

Blessings,
Gavriel
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Aanaddha 1,932 posts
Aanaddha
My question is who keeps making all those 5.25" tablas and why are the stores so afraid to stock anything larger than 5.5" or 5.75" ??
If he could sing, and nature to accompany him, what need would he have for an instrument?
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tablafreak 548 posts
tablafreak
Quote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69DxxalakxE&feature=related
This is so inspiring. It makes me want to get out my Jori and start mixing that atta up!

Wonderful!
Aanaddha wrote:
My question is who keeps making all those 5.25" tablas and why are the stores so afraid to stock anything larger than 5.5" or 5.75" ??
A-
Dont know about this..Last time I was at AACM, they had just got some wicked 7" tablas from Calcutta (Narayan Badya Bhandar).

Also,
Kalakender has 7" MDs
http://www.kalakendar.com/product_info.php?products_id=237
youtube.com/tablasolo
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Aanaddha 1,932 posts
Aanaddha
tablafreak wrote:
Quote:

A-
Dont know about this..Last time I was at AACM, they had just got some wicked 7" tablas from Calcutta (Narayan Badya Bhandar).

Also,
Kalakender has 7" MDs
http://www.kalakendar.com/product_info.php?products_id=237
Last time I was at AACM 99% of their stock was 5.25. I happened find one 5.5 but only after asking to sort through the tablas in the back that had just arrived. Nothing on their website about sizes - I guess you have to special order otherwise you get the standard 5.25.

The Kalakendar item is new and so is their dropdown specs for ordering larger sizes (tuning?) - but hopefully this will be a trend.

Personally I wouldn't be too hopeful about the life expectancy of a 7" Calcutta-style head or the chances of finding a replacement.
If he could sing, and nature to accompany him, what need would he have for an instrument?
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hbajpai 892 posts
hbajpai
Personally, I am a fan of larger tablas. My daily riyaz tabla is a 6.25. Awaiting a 6.5 shell from Upendra. I also have a 7", but I dont play on it too much. Don't really know why... It sounds room filling.

Very later I learned that practicing on a larger size tabla is a good practice prescription. I guess by luck, my very first tabla was a 6.25 and I just loved the sound. Every once in a while, when I am in a group practice session, which is rare these days; sometimes I get very frustrated that my peers on their smaller tablas can practice dhir dhir based exercises for a longer period of time while my forearm is jell, but then when I play sur bols on mine, it just re leaves all the pain and fills the room up with sweet tones. Better yet play a DhirDhir based exercise for 10 minutes on a big boy and then jump on a smaller tabla and play any Shai bol kaida's such as DhaTi TaDha TiTa DhaDha or whatever and you feel like the kingkong of shai bols :-) all right so I am exaggerating here.

I feel it comes down to cost and demand. Cost is higher because the wood block required is a larger one. For us outside of India, Pudi's are custom made since they are not readily available. Finally, only people that have been into the instrument for a while realize and recognize the difference so, there is no incentive for the shopkeeper to stock it since the margins are larger on the smaller tabla. It's also a factor of style of music. More lighter style popular music is accommodated well via a smaller tabla.

Personally, now for me now; I find anything below a 6" to be very odd. One a recommendation note: Upendra can provide any size one desires.

Also, I have some extra, large size pudi's available if some one is interested in purchasing. PM me.
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evening84 Senior Member 513 posts
evening84
Interesting discussion. The large Tabla does indeed grow on you - for many years I have had a smaller (tuned to C#) and a larger (tuned to G) dayan but I rarely used the latter (or as I may put it - I was not yet awake to its hypnotic abilities). Of late, I have found myself using it more and more in practice . A few years ago, I saw one of the big-boys tuned to C-C# (for male vocal accompaniment) and the sound was just awesome.

Re the question on Sikh and big Tablas, the Sikh holy book contains 55 compositions that are qualified as 'parhtaals' - meaning these are to be sung such that the sthayee is in one taal and each antara is in a separate taal. Majority of these compositions are in a few raagas - Asa, Sarang, Malhar and Kanra; although there are a few in Dhanasri,Bilawal and others. The dhrupad-ang thekas are the ones predominantly used in these compositions - chaartaal, sulphaak, tivra, sawaari taals, etc. and all of these sound much better when played with an open-handed style on larger Tablas. So there is the Sikh connection (or at least a part of it).
My karma ran over your dogma
http://evening84.blogspot.com/
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tablafreak 548 posts
tablafreak
Quote:
Last time I was at AACM 99% of their stock was 5.25. I happened find one 5.5 but only after asking to sort through the tablas in the back that had just arrived. Nothing on their website about sizes - I guess you have to special order otherwise you get the standard 5.25.
It must have been a while ago, been going there sporadically for years and they've always had a good supply of drums (all sizes). I will say though that I went in for a 5.5" head once, and there were completely out which I thought was odd.
Quote:
Personally I wouldn't be too hopeful about the life expectancy of a 7" Calcutta-style head or the chances of finding a replacement.
I have no issues with my 6.75" calcutta head. Ive been playing it for years with no buzzes or anything. The drum still sounds great with incredible resonance. I bought the head from sitars etc.
youtube.com/tablasolo
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wilsaxo 163 posts
wilsaxo
I still have A's 7" dayan that I repaired the crack in back in Sept and posted here on the forum.
http://forums.chandrakantha.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4912

The sound is so full and rich that it can easily make any bayan I have sound anemic. You have to really pull some sound out of the bayan to make it sound like it belongs in the same room with this dayan. I can see how practice on this size dayan can also improve the strength of your bayan playing. Mind you I don't practice on this one as it is not mine, but it has inspired me purchase 2 large shells, 6 1/4 and 6 3/4, that I am awaiting heads for to start practicing on. I can't wait!

David
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Khula Bol Singh 16 posts
Khula Bol Singh
Evening- you made a good point regarding the general Sikh preference for the larger dayans; the fact that there are 55 partaal shabads by the 4th and 5th Gurus does indeed play a role here. In order to comfortably switch from something like chaar taal, sool taal, or dhammar to something along the lines of teen taal, ik taal, or panj taal, a larger dayan, or ever a jori chattu, is needed. The first three taals mentioned are played using "khuley" or "open" bols, while the last three are typically played using "bandh" or "closed" bols. The proper terminology for the first set is actually "saath," while typical tabla bol production is referred to as the "gath." There is even a third style of playing in between these known as the "jaath." This utilizes a pakhawaj vaddi/chaanti thaap for the dominant hand, but a "closed" playing style for the dhamma/bayan/duggi- (the way one typcially produces the bols "ge" and "ke" on a bayan.) On a smaller dayan, one obviously cannot play a full pakhwaj "ta" using the "vaddi" or "greater" thaap. This is where the "chaanti" or "ringing" thaap comes in. This is what's being used when you see a jori player using his or her pinky to play "ta."

Gavriel- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3kGKcTRinQ The video of Ustad Bhai Raghbir Singh ji you posted has him playing a jori chattu. He was in New York at Hofstra to accompany Dr. Gurnam Singh ji. The larger dayan was, indeed, used for partaal accompaniment; Dr. Gurnam Singh sang one in Kanarda, and one in Malhar. The video is available on google videos.

One must also remember that tabla was not used during the time of the Sikh Gurus. In the darbars of the Gurus, there would be a couple of jori or pakhawaj players as is still the practice with the Namdharis. Amplification was not an option five or six hundred years ago. The tabla's volume would not have been adequate. According the Gyani Dyal Singh, the dhamma was only replaced by the bayan at Darbar Sahib in the last fifty years ago. This statement implies that up until then, the jori and "saath" was what was primarily used for kirtan. Even now on tabla, the larger taals need to be utilized in kirtan, and a larger dayan is needed. After all, the "sirlekhs" or "headings" at the beginning of most Sikh shabads suggest that 80% of Sikh "bani" is prescribed to be sung under the dhrupad ang. The switch to smaller dayans has its roots in Alexandre Debain's curse upon Indian Classical and Gurmat Sangeet alike. :evil:
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