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Anoushka Shankar On BBC Radio 4 MELODIC INSTRUMENTS
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Senior Member 1,744 posts ragamala Senior Member 1,744 posts
ragamala
I am always perplexed as to why discussions of favourite players - or not - turn sour.

The accusation that Anoushka Shankar should have queried the interviewer's description of her as arguably the world's number two sitar player is ludicrous enough - I mean who on earth would expect her to say something like "excuse me, I'm not, there's a girl from Leicester in the UK who plays far better than I do"?? I suspect even if it had been made during the interview Ms S might have made a discrete pause and coloured a little. You don't jump down the throat of an interviewer.

In fact, if anyone has actually LISTENED to the interview it is patently clear that Anoushka didn't have any opportunity to comment AT ALL.

Here's the transcript of the opening announcement of the programme excerpt -
Quote:
Now if you're Ravi Shankar's daughter, there is a fair chance that you'll play the sitar, and Anoushka Shankar did. But no-one could have predicted that she'd become quite so good at it, winning a recording contract at 16, and a Grammy nomination at 22. She's now, arguably, the world's second best sitar player. When I m,et her I asked her about her life-long love affair with all things musical, and what it's like to collaborate with all sorts of different musicians, including the likes of Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull, and why she just brought out an album which fuses sitar with Spanish flamenco.
From this it is patently clear that the announcer's comments were recorded for the programme after the interview with Ms Shankar. Maybe some months after the interview, as there was a long gap between interview and broadcast, as I pointed out earlier. So the idea that Ms S went along with the suggestion that she's number two is bs.
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trippy monkey 4,281 posts
trippy monkey
OOHH Alan
You really have too much time on your hands!! :wink:

See you at the Dhrupad Mela???

Oh and Sanjeeb bhai
I wasn't making an opinion of Anoushka when I used that expletive, only exposing the ignorance of the interviewer. She HAS improved & is creating her own style now which can only be good!!! 8)

Nick
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ragamala Senior Member 1,744 posts
ragamala
trippy wrote:
OOHH Alan
You really have too much time on your hands!! :wink:

See you at the Dhrupad Mela???

Nick
Unfortunately I was far too busy today to listen to Woman's Hour.

I soo wanted to hear the article "The Changing Role of the Bedroom" and find what women these days use the bedroom for apart from sleeping.

Maybe you caught the program? :twisted:

Yes, all being well I shall be at Dhrupad Mela. Please arrange for it not to be pissing down with rain this year, could you?

Only a brief visit to Varanasi though this time, a day or so before and shooting off to Delhi for my flight back immediately afterwards....
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anju831 152 posts
anju831
Its such a pity that Anoushka takes advantage of an ignorant audience to self promote. I would think that an artist would want to promote the beauty of ICM more than anything else, and especially more than their name. I always hear in interviews with great sitarists that some students are into ICM for the wrong reasons (fame), and I guess Anoushka is just one of them.


I don't get the Anoushka defenders, especially when there are way more talented, humble and deserving young female musicians out there. Take this one for example...amazing music:


Rupinder Kaur Panesar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKu5DgkIj6I
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povster Senior Member 2,537 posts
povster
anju831 wrote:
Its such a pity that Anoushka takes advantage of an ignorant audience to self promote. I would think that an artist would want to promote the beauty of ICM more than anything else, and especially more than their name. I always hear in interviews with great sitarists that some students are into ICM for the wrong reasons (fame), and I guess Anoushka is just one of them.


I don't get the Anoushka defenders, especially when there are way more talented, humble and deserving young female musicians out there. Take this one for example...amazing music:


Rupinder Kaur Panesar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKu5DgkIj6I
Honestly I don't get why players of music must be perceived as "male" or "female". They are musicians. Leave the gender out of it. We are all humans.

Anoushka is not exclusively ICM. She plays her own music and she certainly does not present her own music as ICM. And sometimes she does play ICM and one can hear her father's influence quite strongly. As one can in her own music.

Simply because someone yields a sitar does not mean they are going to be playing ICM.

If someone listens to a Flamenco guitarist and the listener is, for example, a Classical guitarist, how would it sound if they said the "They are a sham. There is not much Classical Guitar in their playing."

I have heard this argument so many times and I still do not get it. She sometimes plays ICM and she more often plays her own compositions.

I tend to dislike "fusion" but at the concerts I have attended I was surprised to discover her composed, non_ICM pieces, were eminently listenable and actually most enjoyable.

And this comes from someone who has gone from sitar to surbahar to settle on rudra vin.
...Michael
Dasani - the official bottled water of ICM
Panini - the official sandwich of ICM
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anju831 152 posts
anju831
povster wrote:
anju831 wrote:
Its such a pity that Anoushka takes advantage of an ignorant audience to self promote. I would think that an artist would want to promote the beauty of ICM more than anything else, and especially more than their name. I always hear in interviews with great sitarists that some students are into ICM for the wrong reasons (fame), and I guess Anoushka is just one of them.


I don't get the Anoushka defenders, especially when there are way more talented, humble and deserving young female musicians out there. Take this one for example...amazing music:


Rupinder Kaur Panesar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKu5DgkIj6I
Honestly I don't get why players of music must be perceived as "male" or "female". They are musicians. Leave the gender out of it. We are all humans.

Anoushka is not exclusively ICM. She plays her own music and she certainly does not present her own music as ICM. And sometimes she does play ICM and one can hear her father's influence quite strongly. As one can in her own music.

Simply because someone yields a sitar does not mean they are going to be playing ICM.

If someone listens to a Flamenco guitarist and the listener is, for example, a Classical guitarist, how would it sound if they said the "They are a sham. There is not much Classical Guitar in their playing."

I have heard this argument so many times and I still do not get it. She sometimes plays ICM and she more often plays her own compositions.

I tend to dislike "fusion" but at the concerts I have attended I was surprised to discover her composed, non_ICM pieces, were eminently listenable and actually most enjoyable.

And this comes from someone who has gone from sitar to surbahar to settle on rudra vin.


You sound like those ignorant youtube defenders, the one's that defend people that yield untuned sitars and horrible technique, "Leave him alone, he's playing it in a new way. It's a new style!"

You gotta kidding if you don't think she presents her music as ICM rather than solely fusion. In fact all of her inaccuracies are in regards to ICM, never fusion.

Listen, I think she is a good sitarist. I don't want to argue that point AT ALL. I'm just saying alot of the things she says are inaccurate and she very well knows that they are yet she still says them or perpetuates them in order to promote herself, and in the process she may or may not hurt ICM. That's it.

Also, i put another vid of a female because a lot of anoushka defenders say people dont like her just because she is a female. But i do agree when you say that sex should not matter.
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ragamala Senior Member 1,744 posts
ragamala
povster wrote:
Honestly I don't get why players of music must be perceived as "male" or "female". They are musicians. Leave the gender out of it. We are all humans.
We're living in the real world, unfortunately, where sex does matter, even when it should not. And the Shankar publicity machine uses this to its advantage, Indisputably. Anyone in any doubt has only to make an assessment of Anoushka's CD covers.

I have no quarrel in anyone using their assets, musically or otherwise, to make a successful career. What gets up my nose is the collusion - I have talked before about the BBC, for example, concentrating over years on Ravi Shankar, and now Anoushka, rather than displaying a broader ICM range of talent.

Be that as it may - for the Anoushka fans -

Just when you thought the last interview on Woman's Hour was over and done with, here's another from yesterday - a sort of Radio 3 Desert Island Discs where Anoushka picks and talks about some of her favourite music.

The interview, judging by its content, was recorded July or so this year. Which makes two Anoushka interviews on BBC within 5 days of each other a bit of overkill IMO.

Here it is, for a limited time-
http://www.mediafire.com/?84sbr24eek7g08c

for details see
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b016vl4x
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povster Senior Member 2,537 posts
povster
anju831 wrote:
You sound like those ignorant youtube defenders, the one's that defend people that yield untuned sitars and horrible technique, "Leave him alone, he's playing it in a new way. It's a new style!"

You gotta kidding if you don't think she presents her music as ICM rather than solely fusion. In fact all of her inaccuracies are in regards to ICM, never fusion.

Listen, I think she is a good sitarist. I don't want to argue that point AT ALL. I'm just saying alot of the things she says are inaccurate and she very well knows that they are yet she still says them or perpetuates them in order to promote herself, and in the process she may or may not hurt ICM. That's it.

Also, i put another vid of a female because a lot of anoushka defenders say people dont like her just because she is a female. But i do agree when you say that sex should not matter.
I am sorry you think I sound like an ignorant youtube defender. I maintain my position when I said "She sometimes plays ICM and she more often plays her own compositions." Her last three albums have not been ICM but her own music. It is that to which I allude.

As far as hurting ICM? I think ICM has already been hurt.

The transition to the large amplified auditoriums is one aspect. When I compare the small private concerts I have attended to the large public venues there is no comparison. The small acoustic venues have been the norm for the vast majority of ICM's history. Now we see the large amplified auditorium as the norm.

For decades phonograph records were used to record performances in the studio. Did the artist have a big clock facing them? 22 minutes or so for a raga: sometimes with alap and bandesh? Often two pieces on one side. This represented what a LOT of people were exposed to as far as ICM goes, and in many cases, especially before the internet, the only exposure they had.

The growing tendency for shorter alap and faster faster faster, "tricked out" flash in playing. Sometimes it feels like the player is playing at the limit of their speed well before the end. And then either sloppiness or abbreviations kick in. Yet the audience goes wild.

These are the kinds of things that have, in my opinion, harmed ICM much more than anything Anoushka could theoretically do.

And I think these harms are quite insidious because they seem to have formed what now is perceived as ICM and accepted as ICM by many people.
...Michael
Dasani - the official bottled water of ICM
Panini - the official sandwich of ICM
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nicneufeld Senior Member 1,566 posts
nicneufeld
Interesting points povster, that I had not considered heretofore. Technology is a two-edged sword of course. One of the things that IMO has greatly enhanced ICM, particularly sitar music in general, is the microphone. Close mic'ing allows a larger audience (or CD listener) to hear what would be assuredly lost except to the performer and those in very close proximity. Beautiful subtleties of harmonics, sustained meendh, etc. It was a point brought up to me by my Ustad, who I assume remembers well the days before high-fidelity sound systems.

It seems to me that most of the criticisms levelled at Anoushka are essentially distillations of those that have been frequently levelled at her father...plays diluted fusion music, gets fame from the masses that should more rightly belong to ____, promotes misinformation, is only good at "marketing", etc etc etc. From a broad outlook, whatever your views on Panditji and daughter, its hard to say that without them, Indian classical would be in a much better state. Perhaps a purer state one could posit, but a pure and obscure state appreciated by few outside the culture. Most Westerners recognize what a sitar is, and are interested in it, however mildly. Ask an average Westerner about the erhu, or Dan Bau...instruments that never had a "Ravi Shankar" missionary to the West.
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Sanjeeb Senior Member 513 posts
Sanjeeb
I agree about these two opinions (in quote)

Anju831
Its such a pity that Anoushka takes advantage of an ignorant audience to self promote.

Ragamala
We're living in the real world, unfortunately, where sex does matter, even when it should not. And the Shankar publicity machine uses this to its advantage, Indisputably. Anyone in any doubt has only to make an assessment of Anoushka's CD covers.
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fossesitar Senior Member 983 posts
fossesitar
Very interesting thread. ICM is very much alive and well, as you can see on this forum !!

As for sex......... it MATTERS baby !!

Agree that the finest and purest experiences in ICM are (or at least have BEEN, for me)
those intimate settings that so closely mirror the courts of the Moghul Emporers where
this music evolved.....

Agree also that much has been lost, and much more has been added through the use
of the microphone. Remember always in any miked acoustic performance, it is very
much an entire SYSTEM - quality of the mike itself, placement of the mike, quality of
the amplifiers (and pre-amps) used, quality of the PA SPEAKERS (often overlooked)
Quality of the sound board and WHO IS ON IT - and then of course, HOW all of this
intertwines with itself. It is an astonishing and little known fact that one can take
ultra-quality components and conbine them into a system that is at odds with itself.

In the final analysis it is the entire system working as a unit that determines sound
quality on any electrified performance whether miked acoustic or solid body electric.
You must find the amps and speakers that work with you pickups or mike.

A new chapter in ICM will be written on the solid body (magnetic PU) electric sitar.
No idea when this will happen or how far it will go. But in 1950 who was even able
to conceive of Jimmy Hendrix? Who knew?? As they say "in the old country"......
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ragamala Senior Member 1,744 posts
ragamala
fossesitar wrote:
As for sex......... it MATTERS baby !!

Agree that the finest and purest experiences in ICM are (or at least have BEEN, for me)
those intimate settings that so closely mirror the courts of the Moghul Emporers where
this music evolved.....

Agree also that much has been lost, and much more has been added through the use
of the microphone.
The mind boggles.
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fossesitar Senior Member 983 posts
fossesitar
Its the meds talking........
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ragamala Senior Member 1,744 posts
ragamala
I know. I'm just getting through the morning meds but have to wait for the pre-sleep cocktail.
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fossesitar Senior Member 983 posts
fossesitar
Its all a little confusing and where does the sex fit in?
Before or after or during the "pre-sleep cocktail"? It
just seems to be droning in and out of conciousness.

Is this a good thing? One has to wonder when one can
not even keep Yamani and Yamini straight......
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polishcomedy 48 posts
polishcomedy
I'm surprised at the responses here. Have any of you heard the new Anoushka Shankar album? I think it's incredible. You can actually listen to the ENTIRE album on her website: http://www.anoushkashankar.com/

Yeah, it's flamenco Indian fusion, but it's not the cheezy watered down world fusion music most people associate with the term fusion in association with Eastern music. As far as her not being ICM, who cares? Does everyone who plays sitar have to automatically be a strict ICM musician? She's paid her dues and I laud her for venturing out. To be honest there are thousands of ICM albums out there, and I couldn't for the life of me discern who is who if I was blindfolded. Most of it sounds the same. It's not like being able to tell the difference between Django Reinhardt and Joe Pass. So I'm glad her music stands out from the rest. Not to mention this forum is for Sitar & Surbahar on a board for Indian Music and Dance. Nothing says Carnatic or Hindustani.

Here are some great videos from recent shows supporting the new album

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PfRSr0F9eM&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23zGI-rnGxk&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwbgDjIsTpI (great piano playing on here, too)
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