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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #1 
Just out of interest, has anyone ever tried a Cello Wolf Tone Eliminator on a sitar Ma string to get rid of a wolfish note? I wonder if it would work. I bought one to try, not that I have any terrible wolf notes, but my travel sitar has a flubby Ga.
Anyhoo, just wondering if anyone has tried one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-LUPXC-Lup-X-Wolf-Tone-Cello-Wolf-Eliminator-/271465017215?ssPageName=ADME:LC:US:3160
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CarbonSitars

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Reply with quote  #2 
Interesting. Is there a distinctive wobbling sound on the ga? If so, then you should be able to hear the wolf tone on the same ga but on a different string. A cello wolf eliminator could theoretically fix this, although there's less room between the bridge and the langot to slide it up and down to find the spot. The extra mass along the string could also affect the attack and sustain of that particular string, which isn't necessarily a problem on bowed instruments. I'd be interested to hear back to see if it worked. Good luck!
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povster

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Reply with quote  #3 
Yes, I used a cylinder shaped one in the 70s on an old teak Hemen sitar that used to belong to Gokul Nag. The wolf tone was not very strong and it did have a positive impact.

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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #4 
Cool. Well we shall see if it fixes that fluggy wolf note on my travel sitar.
I will experiment on my other sitars just for fun too.
I thought it couldn't hurt.

I thought of this because I have played many sitars that were pretty great other than one fluffy odd note somewhere on the neck.
Maybe this is the solution.
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #5 
Daryush,

The thing I bought is a small weight used by Cellists to stop wolf notes/tones.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_tone

They use these small weights on the offending string, in between the back of the bridge and the tail piece.
They place them at the point in the string the corresponds with that note, and it can reduce the odd vibrations that note causes due to the natural resonance of the instrument.

The problem I have on my travel sitar is a different thing I know, but I am just experimenting to see what the Wolf Tone Eliminator might do if I put it on the Ma string behind the bridge, and experiment with its location on the string. My Ga is just not resonation like the rest of the sitar. It sort of "mis-resonates". It is not the sympathetic string, and I don't think it is the Jawari, although that makes most sense.
It is more like the instrument is strangling the note and making it resonate in an odd manner.

The little thing I bought probably won't to anything, but I thought I would give it a try.
It doesn't hurt anything, and it could be fun even if it does not fix the problem.
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Lars

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Reply with quote  #6 
Is there any sort of formula for these things regarding weight, size, etc. or just a mass added to the string? Would be fun to play around with one and see what it does....

Lars

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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #7 
Lars,

I have read that there are Wolf tone eliminators of different weight and size for different problems.
The sizes are probably to accommodate different sized instruments.
Certainly a violin needs a smaller device than a Double Bass.

This article is a bit scientific in its explanation of wolf tones.
http://mafija.fmf.uni-lj.si/seminar/files/2010_2011/ViolinWolf.pdf

Here is a demo of wolf tone on a Cello


http://www.allthingsstrings.com/Instruments/CARE-MAINTENANCE/How-to-Tame-Annoying-Howling-Wolf-Tones

I don't really know any more than I have read, but my sitar issue seems similar to the Cello issue discussed throughout the internet.
I figured I would give the little bugger a try and see if it makes any difference.
Maybe it won't do anything.

I have played some sitars that had obvious odd notes along the neck. Usually just one somewhere in the middle of the neck.
My travel sitar has that issue at the Ga fret. (really I think the problem is in-between Ga and Ma, but it effects the Ga.
If this works it would be a handy fix.
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CarbonSitars

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Lars"
Is there any sort of formula for these things regarding weight, size, etc. or just a mass added to the string? Would be fun to play around with one and see what it does....

Lars
I think the mathematics behind it are pretty complex, but the gist is that the difference in impedance between the string and the bridge can cause an abnormal oscillation along the string, which simultaneously strengthens and dampens the vibrations of both the body and the string based on the ratio of the mismatched impedance, creating the wobbling tremolo sound. Probably the simplest way to eliminate it is to place a material with high internal damping along the string behind the bridge at a certain point. The mass doesn't necessarily matter, but the dampening quality of the material. Rubber-like materials work best.

If the sitar truly has wolf tones happening, then it might be possible to kill two birds with one stone by using a rubber tuning bead. I've recommended people try this before, but I'm not sure I've seen anyone actually do it.

It's more common for a sitar to have a dead spot near the ga, where both the baj tar and sympathetics don't like to vibrate around this range. There are indeed fixes for this too, which involve placing extra mass along the bridge. Klaas Janssens of Sitarfactory has an interesting blog entry about how mass affects sustain and can eliminate dead spots:
http://www.sitarfactory.be/2013/dead-notes/
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