cwroyds
Here is a clip of Wahid Khan playing surbahar in "The Music Room".
Pretty cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVznvC8pZxs&feature=related
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ragamala
http://ramprapannabhattacharya.blogspot.com/2010/05/sitar-repertoire-of-ustad-vilayat-khan.html
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Bill
Overall a highly thoughtful and comprehensive portrait.

"Khan Sahab was one of the most charismatic musicians of India, among Ustad Faiyaz Khan, Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan. His stage appearance was so unique, which used to reflect his royal personality. He used to take a total ‘grip’ on his audience by his gracious presence, royal yet mischievous look, artistic choice of dresses, combined with behavioral etiquette on stage. He started to cover the right foot with shawl while sitting with sitar. His perfect and smart posture with the instrument, perfect position of right and left hand on instrument, redefined technique of movement of hands on instrument, variation of angle of stroke are considered to be ideal by his followers."

Granted this is not most significant aspect of Vilayat Khan sahab's performance, though it does seem to define him a great deal in my memory; and certainly not that there is any comparison between musicians, however it is relevant in respect to the statement I made regarding Anoushka and the effect of her tailored appearance and demeanor - the same may be said of her father.
(...by the same light one may wonder what was lost on Shujaat ?)
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dhawal
wellll, I dont want to offend anyone here but what I feel is that way toooo much of flaunting has been done by the person bout ustad ji... No doubt he was one of the greatest musician but there are many points which I feel are not correct.

Like I dont think he was the first one to play thumri on sitar. Do we have some proof that he was the first person to play thumri?
Quote:
Perhaps Khan Sahab never performed on so called ‘and half’ taals, which don’t even have the stature to be called as ‘Taal’.

How can someone say thse taals dont even have stature of being called as taal? Just because VK didnt like these taals, people say those taals are not taals... As per this logic, we can say whatever VK didnt play was not at all music...
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dhawal
Quote:
combined with behavioral etiquette on stage
the ettiquettes he showed were when the audience clapped for Ustad Zakir Hussain, he stopped playing and shouted at audience that it wasnt a tabla concert....

then comes about perfect posture and perfect hand position.... what i think is very few place their right hand on tumba like he used to place. Not evene Ustad Shahid Parvez keeps his hand in same way.. So does it mean that only his hand position was perfect and all others do it wrong way??
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trippy monkey
I, for one, am glad the Ustad KEPT his boundaries & stopped 'lesser' behaviours creeping into his performances &, possibly, his audiences!!!
:wink:
Nick
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ragamala
dhawal wrote:
Like I dont think he was the first one to play thumri on sitar. Do we have some proof that he was the first person to play thumri?
In the author's defence, this suggestion is not made about Vilayat Khan but about Enayat Khan. I don't have enough knowledge to argue this point, but feel I have to flag this up. If you can say there were sitar players before Enayat khan who played thumri please let us know.
dhawal wrote:
Quote:
Perhaps Khan Sahab never performed on so called ‘and half’ taals, which don’t even have the stature to be called as ‘Taal’.

How can someone say thse taals dont even have stature of being called as taal? Just because VK didnt like these taals, people say those taals are not taals... As per this logic, we can say whatever VK didnt play was not at all music...
Well I can appreciate the point the author is making. If taals are invented to be too complicated for even an educated listener what's the point?

Ramprapanna adds
Quote:
He added the rhythm chemistry to his music in such a proportion that never came to his listeners as mechanical or tedious.
As far as I'm concerned this is spot-on. Unlike another major sitarist of the latter 20th century he concentrated on raga as the essence of the music. To my mind this elevates, rather than lowers, Vilayat Khan's status as a musician. Who on earth can really say they enjoy a 13 and a half matra tala? Not me.
dhawal wrote:
Quote:
combined with behavioral etiquette on stage
We all know that Ustad Vilayat Khan was something of what we might describe as a prima donna. But your point on posture is lost on me. UVK had a magisterial stage presence, including his posture.
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ram.sitar
Mr. Dhawal Dhingra…Here you go.

As you have referred Shahid Ji's name, I will quote him twice below.
1)         Regarding your point related to Khansahib’s perfect position of hands:
Ustad Shahid Parvez (who is in turn Ustad Vilayat Khan's nephew) says:
It is not surprising that the music of this (Imdadkhani Etawah Gharana) gharana is spreading faster than rival styles. The main reason is the scientific technique. This has to do with the posture, setting of the hands, and the handling of the acoustic and harmonic ambience of the melody. The realization has now dawned that this is the best way to handle the sitar.
We the members of Etawah Gharana (including top-notch artists and a beginner) treat Khansahib’s setting of hands as ideal. We try to keep the hands in the same way. The slight difference in posture varies due to difference in structure of body and structure of hands of individuals.
Do you find similarity of Shahid Ji’s posture with Rajiv Gandhi’s rather than Vilayat Khan’s?
Khan Sahib had done a research work on the posture with sitar to get the maximum output from the instrument for long duration (increase in ‘dam’) in effortless way. And you listen from me, we (along with Ustad Shahid Parvez) consider it as “the best way to handle the sitar.” :twisted:

2)         Now regarding your concern about ‘And Half’ Taals –
Ustad Shahid Parvez says: ‘...cycles with fractional beats such as 5 ½ , 7 ½ etc. Such cycles are improvised, and do not have the status of tala-s in the Hindustani tradition.
He who plays “And half” taal with the superman’s perfection says they do not have status of talas. They don’t have any standard name to be called in ICM. I believe that was our point. :mrgreen:

3)         Your question: “So does it mean that only his hand position was perfect and all others do it wrong way??”
No such claim was made in the blog entry. We follow forefathers of our Gharana. But at the same time we have been taught to give the due respect to the other traditions and lineages as well.

4)         Your doubt on the first interpreter of Thumri on Sitar:
Many research works on Thumri and ICM (Including 'Thumrī in historical and stylistic perspectives By Peter Lamarche Manuel' and many others) reveal that Ustad Enayet Khan and Ustad Hafiz Ali Khan were the pioneers to play thumri on Sitar and Sarod respectively.
Thanks & Regards,

Ramprapanna Bhattacharya
http://ramprapanna.webs.com
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jaan e kharabat
Just in regards to thumris, there is some thought that the Reza Khani gats were actually modeled on the structure of Bandish ki Thumris. As such, most of the 'early' sitar styles featured a heavy reliance on that forms features, e.g. medium to fast tempi, teental based compositions. Perhaps one of the early pioneers to adopt the Bol Banao style Thumri on the sitar were the Imdad Khanis but from what ever recording material there is not to my knowledge anything left to suggest that Enayat Khan played in the slow tempo of that style.

@ragamala: I wonder how much Ravi Shankar's dance backgroud has to do with his penchant for unusual taals and layakaari. OTOH, Vilayat Khan was, of course, very much from a traditional sitar family with a traditional sitar repertoire.
If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
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dhawal
ram.sitar wrote:
Mr. Dhawal Dhingra…Here you go.

As you have referred Shahid Ji's name, I will quote him twice below.
1)         Regarding your point related to Khansahib’s perfect position of hands:
Ustad Shahid Parvez (who is in turn Ustad Vilayat Khan's nephew) says:
It is not surprising that the music of this (Imdadkhani Etawah Gharana) gharana is spreading faster than rival styles. The main reason is the scientific technique. This has to do with the posture, setting of the hands, and the handling of the acoustic and harmonic ambience of the melody. The realization has now dawned that this is the best way to handle the sitar.
We the members of Etawah Gharana (including top-notch artists and a beginner) treat Khansahib’s setting of hands as ideal. We try to keep the hands in the same way. The slight difference in posture varies due to difference in structure of body and structure of hands of individuals.
Do you find similarity of Shahid Ji’s posture with Rajiv Gandhi’s rather than Vilayat Khan’s?
Agreed that Ustad Shahid Parvez right hand position is similar to VK. Agreed to this too that hand movement and posture cant be xactly same for two people due to difference in body physique. but then about ustad imrat khan... his hand movements were totaly different... now i suppose u'll reason he was a surbahar player and he learnt playing it before VK. Isint it??
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ram.sitar
@Dhawal Dhingra

Once you are saying "Not evene Ustad Shahid Parvez keeps his hand in same way (as Ustad Vilayat Khan).".

Again you are saying "Agreed that Ustad Shahid Parvez right hand position is similar to VK."

- Before answering to any of your further questions, I would like to ask, do you know (or are you sure of) what you are trying to say?
Thanks & Regards,

Ramprapanna Bhattacharya
http://ramprapanna.webs.com
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cwroyds
A bit off topic, I wanted to welcome Ram to the forum.
You will be a wonderful addition to our discussions.
You were very kind to us when we came to your ORKUT Music Circle, and I hope we can return the favor.
I hope to see you in here often.
Welcome.

Carleton
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ram.sitar
Hello Carleton,

It is really nice to meet you here once again.
Thanks for your welcome note. It was really nice to go through.
Surely we will have interaction through different forums.

My Best Wishes...!
Thanks & Regards,

Ramprapanna Bhattacharya
http://ramprapanna.webs.com
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anju831
Yes, Welcome Ramprapanna!

I particularly enjoyed your article and hope there is more to come. I love reading about the history and subtle/hard to see techniques and gestures of Khan Saheb. Such information and readings are very hard to come by though

At the moment, I am listening to Khan Saheb's Kafi Kanada from Afshaq's mediafire. An amazing piece. The lyricisim is immense and just so beautiful; wish the gat was in Kafi Kanada too. Anyways, welcome Ram!


PS. Does any one have Afshaq's email/ I tried to contact him through esnips but the messaging system is not working for me : (
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dhawal
ram.sitar wrote:
@Dhawal Dhingra

Once you are saying "Not evene Ustad Shahid Parvez keeps his hand in same way (as Ustad Vilayat Khan).".

Again you are saying "Agreed that Ustad Shahid Parvez right hand position is similar to VK."

- Before answering to any of your further questions, I would like to ask, do you know (or are you sure of) what you are trying to say?
by this what i mean is, ustad shahid parvez's hand position is similar to VK..not xactly same.... there is a difference between similar and same it shud hav been simple to understand... for this u hav given the reason it is due to difference in body structure and i hav agreed to it....
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ragamala
jaan wrote:
Just in regards to thumris, there is some thought that the Reza Khani gats were actually modeled on the structure of Bandish ki Thumris. As such, most of the 'early' sitar styles featured a heavy reliance on that forms features, e.g. medium to fast tempi, teental based compositions. Perhaps one of the early pioneers to adopt the Bol Banao style Thumri on the sitar were the Imdad Khanis but from what ever recording material there is not to my knowledge anything left to suggest that Enayat Khan played in the slow tempo of that style.

@ragamala: I wonder how much Ravi Shankar's dance backgroud has to do with his penchant for unusual taals and layakaari. OTOH, Vilayat Khan was, of course, very much from a traditional sitar family with a traditional sitar repertoire.
Thanks for the leads there - certainly it does seem that if anyone could lay claim to being originator of thumri on sitar it's Ghulam Raza, at least as far as bolbant/bandish thumri goes. I must admit I'd never appreciated the link between fast gat Razakhani and thumri before, obviously I always had in my mind the later development of thumri.

In his book on thumri Pete Manuel seems rather on-the-fence about Enayat Khan's thumri playing too, based on the 78s he describes playing of fast gat Razakhani with traces of thumri base, but only hint of bol banao is in the alaps where he says there is a syllabic imitation by repeated strokes imitating thumri text delivery. So maybe we do indeed have to wait for Vilayat Khan before seeing full thumri on sitar as we know it mainly today in slow bol banao style.

Re Ravi Shankar, yes I can appreciate the dance link. On a practical note, as I implied, I don't get much pleasure myself listening to academic talas where you spend more time trying to count than enjoying the music. Given the link between Razakhani gats and both thumri and Kathak, I wonder do you hear much of kathak or thumri in Ravi Shankar's fast gats? Does he play much Razakhani? I don't listen to him often enough to know.

Regarding Vilayat Khan's traditional background, I think I might say this makes one realise even more his genius and how he made substantial changes to not only the instrument itself, but the development of the whole gayaki style including that of incorporating thumri. Ramprapanna's article was a big stimulus to help me appreciate this more, certainly, so thanks for that, Ram
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