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Veena just arrived! MELODIC INSTRUMENTS
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91 posts CarnaticConnection 91 posts
CarnaticConnection
Thanks a lot Daniel, I think I'll either try sanding down the back of the bridge or adjusting the nut at some point...I am using mizrabs to play, which I noticed definitely adds more buzz. I'll work on it soon. Thanks!
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CarnaticConnection 91 posts
CarnaticConnection
So a couple of days ago, I was finally able to pick up my new Khandarbani style veena after almost two weeks of delay (good old India). It is better than I dreamed it would be, the sound is amazing, and it's gorgeous! (Sorry for the poor quality, my iPhone is the best camera available right now.) I had one issue with shipping damage, and that was that the crest of the bird was knocked off and some of the wood around the break was chipped away. I can always fill it and glue the crest back in, but it's still annoying...

I have one issue with the karaj string though...While the jawari is very nice, I am still getting a lot of buzz, and it sounds like it is from the frets. However, the string isn't hitting extra frets, so I don't really know what's causing it. Could it be the nut? Any veena players experienced with an issue like this? Thanks a lot!

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Surbaharplayer 425 posts
Surbaharplayer
Congratulations!!!! Is it a Miraj made Veena?

I moved my Kanai Lal twice...the first time the little crown came off...the second time both legs broke off... the beak had already been damaged (perhaps during the flight from India). Somehow it's difficult to make a good fitting case for veena's....

What's the pitch you tune to?
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westsea Senior Member 410 posts
westsea
I agree, congratulations!
About the buzz, if the frets rock at all (tuning peg to tuning peg direction), try
setting them so the lowest height is on the karaj side. It could be jawari?
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povster Senior Member 2,537 posts
povster
Yes, what are you tuning to? Also, what gauges are you using for the strings?
...Michael
Dasani - the official bottled water of ICM
Panini - the official sandwich of ICM
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CarnaticConnection 91 posts
CarnaticConnection
Thanks for the responses!

Yes, it is a Miraj made veena, made by RA Sitarmaker. I have an Ibrahim and Bashir sitar made in Miraj as well, it is exquisite.


Westsea-I don't think it is jawari, the buzzing seems to come from the area of string-on-fret contact itself... Again, the string is not hitting multiple frets, and the frets are solid...

Povster-I am currently tuned in C# as my Sa, not sure of the gauges though...they're just the standard strings that came on it. When i need to change the I am going to mix and match male/female tanpura and sitar strings until I find good thicknesses, and eventually invest in wire coils.

Thanks!
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Surbaharplayer 425 posts
Surbaharplayer
Maybe it's good to look around for the best stringgauges: when I got my Murari-surb several years ago the strings the were put on it were totally wrong (the second string was actually thinner than my second string on my sitar, making the instrument totally unplayable). You say you tune to C#....that's either extremly low of very high I think... I tune to G#, but that's a Dagar style veena.
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CarnaticConnection 91 posts
CarnaticConnection
I will look into the gauges, I think I might need a thicker string...I don't know. Mine sounds pretty good at C#, it isn't too low but any lower and and the kharaj loses too much tension...The other strings sing like angel voices though!
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povster Senior Member 2,537 posts
povster
Vins are usually tuned at Sa anywhere from F - A. C# sounds awfully high if you are tuning to the same middle c# a sitar is tuned to. The lower tuning also allows easier and longer mirs (meends).

One thing VERY possible is to check the bridge and be sure you have real contact with that buzzing kharaj string on the bridge. Sometimes a thick brass or bronze string is just too stiff to lay properly on the vin bridge. I experimented a lot with various gauges and, when I tried a 40 brass it was so stiff at that gauge it just sat above almost the full length of the jawari and buzzed briskly. The flat would tanpura string I use is thicker than the 40 brass but it is a nicely flexible string that sits on the bridge beautifully and has a good throaty growl.

A good basic starting point is:

6 or 7 gauge steel for the main (I use 7)

22 brass or bronze for the 2nd (sa joditar) - this is the same a Pancham string on the sitar

28-30 brass or bronze for the low Pancham - this is the same as a Kharaj string on a sitar

I use a #18 fine wound tanpura string for the low kharaj.

For the chicaris you should experiment with anything from 1 to 3 steel. I use a 3 steel for the longer, lower sa chic and a 1 steel for the higher, shorter chic.

For the laraj, or string o the opposite side of the chicaris, a 22 brass or bronze (same as the joditar) is a good starting point. That should be tuned to Sa.
...Michael
Dasani - the official bottled water of ICM
Panini - the official sandwich of ICM
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CarnaticConnection 91 posts
CarnaticConnection
Povster,

Thank you for those helpful gauges, I will definitely keep them in mind as I experiment. And I should have been more clear, I am tuned to C# an octave BELOW the sitar middle C# hahaha, tuning it to a sitar range would defeat the purpose of the veena being a bass instrument!
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povster Senior Member 2,537 posts
povster
CarnaticConnection wrote:
Povster,

Thank you for those helpful gauges, I will definitely keep them in mind as I experiment. And I should have been more clear, I am tuned to C# an octave BELOW the sitar middle C# hahaha, tuning it to a sitar range would defeat the purpose of the veena being a bass instrument!
phew, CC! That is probably why the kharaj is buzzing. Just too low.

I think if you tune it up to the F-A range (G would be a nice start) with the right gauges you will hear some very interesting and positive things! But only with the right gauge strings! Check your PMs in a bit.
...Michael
Dasani - the official bottled water of ICM
Panini - the official sandwich of ICM
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CarnaticConnection 91 posts
CarnaticConnection
Hey Pov,

I'll check my inbox in a bit, rushing around. But I just relistened to the recording of your veena that you sent me and it sounds like you're tuned around the same range I am...Your lowest kharaj note was actually lower than what I set mine to :? ...So I don't know, but I tried tuning my kharaj up a few steps and the buzz went away. But I really want those deep low ranges, so it's kind of annoying... :evil:
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povster Senior Member 2,537 posts
povster
CarnaticConnection wrote:
Hey Pov,

I'll check my inbox in a bit, rushing around. But I just relistened to the recording of your veena that you sent me and it sounds like you're tuned around the same range I am...Your lowest kharaj note was actually lower than what I set mine to :? ...So I don't know, but I tried tuning my kharaj up a few steps and the buzz went away. But I really want those deep low ranges, so it's kind of annoying... :evil:
That recording was tuned to F# for Sa. I recently tuned up to G as the vin was not sounding or feeling that good at F#. (I had it tuned to F# to practice against the recordings I have of lessons from my vin teacher.) Just that 1/2 pitch up adjustment really made a difference across the board.

I recently modified my Saraswati veena by shifting the whole lower string assembly about 5/8" closer to me. This gives me the ability to do real mirs on the kharaj. So I now have that tuned to F# to match my teacher. Nice thing about the Saraswati Veena is it has the same stringing (reversed from sitar - main string is closest to you and kharaj furthest from you) and is fully fretted like the vin. So it makes an excellent instrument for me to practice against my teacher's lessons. Then I can take what I am learning and do full practice with the vin, and with it sounding great at G.

Just for the record the tuning is same as sitar with the exception that the Pancham string never changes.
Main string (bajtar) - Ma
2nd string (joditar) - Sa (one octave below middle Sa)
3rd String (Pancham) - Pa - One ocatve below the Pa on a sitar that is the 2nd fret from the top. Best way I can describe it. Unlike the sitar, this string is always tuned to Pa. For example, on sitar if you play Malkauns it would be tuned to MA. But on the vin it stays at Pa. You just have to familiarize yourself with the fretting adjustments for the various ragas like Malkauns, Marwa, Gujari Todi etc. that on the sitar you would make adjustments to the Pancham string..
4th string - (kharaj) - Sa two octaves below middle Sa or one octave below the 2nd string
Laraj (or string opposite the chicaris) - same Sa as the 2nd string
Chicaris - short one tuned one octave above middle Sa. Longer one tuned to middle Sa.
...Michael
Dasani - the official bottled water of ICM
Panini - the official sandwich of ICM
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Surbaharplayer 425 posts
Surbaharplayer
Hey Pov,
Try to get your hands on a program like Soundforge. I edit most of my practise-material with SF. My teacher here in Holland recorded a huge collection of audiotapes of Z.M. Dagar, Bahauddin Dagar, Pushparaj Koshti and others over the years. I'm in the process of cleaning them up and transfering them to the digital realm. Aside from cleaning them up I also retune and stretch the files with SF. I have a disk full of practisematerial this way (I can compare for instance about a dozen or so Yaman recordings, a very cool way of studying)
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CarnaticConnection 91 posts
CarnaticConnection
I feel like a complete idiot, but I just realized that I am tuned to G, the very one you speak of Povster. I have been from the start, I don't know why I said C#. Hmmm and the kharaj is still acting that way...Maybe I'll try a string change...Thank you for all the responses, they were very helpful and I learned a lot!
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povster Senior Member 2,537 posts
povster
CarnaticConnection wrote:
I feel like a complete idiot,
Congratulations, CC! You have gone through the first of many initiation rites in pursuing the vin!

As far as the kharaj, yes, a different string may well solve that. I'm confident things will get consolidated.
...Michael
Dasani - the official bottled water of ICM
Panini - the official sandwich of ICM
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