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pbercker

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Posts: 1,451
Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "hbajpai"
Pascal, a lot of relevant questions. I like it!

To the best of my knowledge:
GeNa TiTa GeNa DhaGe DhinNa GeNa TiTa GeNa DhaTir KitDha GeNa TiTa GeNa DhaGe TinNa KeNa
KeNa TiTa KeNa TaKe TinNa KeNa TiTa KeNa DhaTir KitDha GeNa TiTa GeNa DhaGe DhinNa GeNa

This is Delhi. Some play it with Trak instead of tirakit.
I should have known that ... I see now that my jerry leake book has another delhi kaida that seems to have some clear affinities with this one....

gina dhati dhagi nadha tidha gina dhinna gina
tidha gina dhage nadha tidha gina tinna kina
+khali

you noted that the first traditional kaida is in straight movement of 2s. I can see that the grouping of course is in twos, but I'm assuming that movement in 2s must mean more than merely this. Does the grouping have an implication for the accenting of bols?

Pascal

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My opinion given without any warranties, expressed or implied, that it's even relevant. It would be folly to rely on my opinion without seeking more professional tabla advice. If you are suffering from a tabla condition, seek immediate attention.
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pbercker

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "hbajpai"
Pascal, a lot of relevant questions. I like it!


Maufi for my gustaakhi = best translation i can come up with is - pardon (maufi) the audacity within my respectful attempt (gustaakhi). Attempt is an important word that brings cultural context. Again, my definition has not been approved by the "urdu university" :-)
Interesting. I had originally assumed that it was Hindi and so did a search on "gustaakhi hindi translation" and the most relevant information was in relation to a Tv show called "Gustaakhi maaf" (that I know nothing about except that it makes fun of politicians, and therefore asks to be pardoned beforehand!) I see however that Hindi and Urdu are very close dialects of a common language (called hindi-urdu I think). If I understand correctly, "Gustaakhi" will means something a bit different according to the context. In the case of the TV show it's "disrespect" presumably because the show is making fun of politicians, but in your usage I take it that it's "audacity of the respectful attempt" since you're clearly not making fun of anyone.

Pascal

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My opinion given without any warranties, expressed or implied, that it's even relevant. It would be folly to rely on my opinion without seeking more professional tabla advice. If you are suffering from a tabla condition, seek immediate attention.
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hbajpai

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Posts: 892
Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "pbercker"
Quote:
Originally Posted by "hbajpai"
Pascal, a lot of relevant questions. I like it!


Maufi for my gustaakhi = best translation i can come up with is - pardon (maufi) the audacity within my respectful attempt (gustaakhi). Attempt is an important word that brings cultural context. Again, my definition has not been approved by the "urdu university" :-)
Interesting. I had originally assumed that it was Hindi and so did a search on "gustaakhi hindi translation" and the most relevant information was in relation to a Tv show called "Gustaakhi maaf" (that I know nothing about except that it makes fun of politicians, and therefore asks to be pardoned beforehand!) I see however that Hindi and Urdu are very close dialects of a common language (called hindi-urdu I think). If I understand correctly, "Gustaakhi" will means something a bit different according to the context. In the case of the TV show it's "disrespect" presumably because the show is making fun of politicians, but in your usage I take it that it's "audacity of the respectful attempt" since you're clearly not making fun of anyone.

Pascal
Bingo!
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Nastika

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Posts: 133
Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "pbercker"
I do not fully understand what it means to say that the movement is "2-2-..." I can't quite figure out what I should be listening for, especially if it goes from 2 to 3 and then back to 2 again. Is this a matter of what bols are accented?

Pascal
I think I can answer this, if I may. hbajpai is referring to the bol grouping.
2-2-3-2-3-2-2
GhiNa(2) TeTe(2) DhaGe Na(3)Dha Ti(2)Dha GhiNa(3) TiNa(2) KiNa(2)
KiNa(2) TeTe(2) Take Na(3)Dha Ti(2)Dha GhiNa(3) DhiNa(2) GhiNa(2)

It helps to conceptualize it this way to get the proper feel for reciting and playing. I hope this helps. I, too, didn't understand at first; but I can recite it much more fluidly by grouping it this way.
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pbercker

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Posts: 1,451
Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Nastika"
Quote:
Originally Posted by "pbercker"
I do not fully understand what it means to say that the movement is "2-2-..." I can't quite figure out what I should be listening for, especially if it goes from 2 to 3 and then back to 2 again. Is this a matter of what bols are accented?

Pascal
I think I can answer this, if I may. hbajpai is referring to the bol grouping.
2-2-3-2-3-2-2
GhiNa(2) TeTe(2) DhaGe Na(3)Dha Ti(2)Dha GhiNa(3) TiNa(2) KiNa(2)
KiNa(2) TeTe(2) Take Na(3)Dha Ti(2)Dha GhiNa(3) DhiNa(2) GhiNa(2)

It helps to conceptualize it this way to get the proper feel for reciting and playing. I hope this helps. I, too, didn't understand at first; but I can recite it much more fluidly by grouping it this way.
It never occured to me to recite it, and you're quite right, reciting it makes that pattern come out quite nicely!

PB

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My opinion given without any warranties, expressed or implied, that it's even relevant. It would be folly to rely on my opinion without seeking more professional tabla advice. If you are suffering from a tabla condition, seek immediate attention.
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TablaBeatz

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Posts: 342
Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Nastika"
Quote:
Originally Posted by "pbercker"
I do not fully understand what it means to say that the movement is "2-2-..." I can't quite figure out what I should be listening for, especially if it goes from 2 to 3 and then back to 2 again. Is this a matter of what bols are accented?

Pascal
I think I can answer this, if I may. hbajpai is referring to the bol grouping.
2-2-3-2-3-2-2
GhiNa(2) TeTe(2) DhaGe Na(3)Dha Ti(2)Dha GhiNa(3) TiNa(2) KiNa(2)
KiNa(2) TeTe(2) Take Na(3)Dha Ti(2)Dha GhiNa(3) DhiNa(2) GhiNa(2)

It helps to conceptualize it this way to get the proper feel for reciting and playing. I hope this helps. I, too, didn't understand at first; but I can recite it much more fluidly by grouping it this way.

Thanks for clearing that up ! Always learning something new

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"The beginning of life is rhythm. When you’re in the womb your mother’s heart is beating at (about 90) decibels ... we were born of vibration 13.7 billion years ago with the explosion of the universe."
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hbajpai

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Posts: 892
Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Nastika"
Quote:
Originally Posted by "pbercker"
I do not fully understand what it means to say that the movement is "2-2-..." I can't quite figure out what I should be listening for, especially if it goes from 2 to 3 and then back to 2 again. Is this a matter of what bols are accented?

Pascal
I think I can answer this, if I may. hbajpai is referring to the bol grouping.
2-2-3-2-3-2-2
GhiNa(2) TeTe(2) DhaGe Na(3)Dha Ti(2)Dha GhiNa(3) TiNa(2) KiNa(2)
KiNa(2) TeTe(2) Take Na(3)Dha Ti(2)Dha GhiNa(3) DhiNa(2) GhiNa(2)

It helps to conceptualize it this way to get the proper feel for reciting and playing. I hope this helps. I, too, didn't understand at first; but I can recite it much more fluidly by grouping it this way.
Spot-on!
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hbajpai

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Posts: 892
Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "pbercker"
Quote:
Originally Posted by "hbajpai"
Pascal, a lot of relevant questions. I like it!

To the best of my knowledge:
GeNa TiTa GeNa DhaGe DhinNa GeNa TiTa GeNa DhaTir KitDha GeNa TiTa GeNa DhaGe TinNa KeNa
KeNa TiTa KeNa TaKe TinNa KeNa TiTa KeNa DhaTir KitDha GeNa TiTa GeNa DhaGe DhinNa GeNa

This is Delhi. Some play it with Trak instead of tirakit.
I should have known that ... I see now that my jerry leake book has another delhi kaida that seems to have some clear affinities with this one....

gina dhati dhagi nadha tidha gina dhinna gina
tidha gina dhage nadha tidha gina tinna kina
+khali

you noted that the first traditional kaida is in straight movement of 2s. I can see that the grouping of course is in twos, but I'm assuming that movement in 2s must mean more than merely this. Does the grouping have an implication for the accenting of bols?

Pascal
Pascal, I don't own the book so, please confirm for me first bol of the second line from your book. Is it indeed tidha as typed above?
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pbercker

Registered:
Posts: 1,451
Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "hbajpai"
Quote:
Originally Posted by "pascal"
I should have known that ... I see now that my jerry leake book has another delhi kaida that seems to have some clear affinities with this one....

gina dhati dhagi nadha tidha gina dhinna gina
tidha gina dhage nadha tidha gina tinna kina
+khali

you noted that the first traditional kaida is in straight movement of 2s. I can see that the grouping of course is in twos, but I'm assuming that movement in 2s must mean more than merely this. Does the grouping have an implication for the accenting of bols?

Pascal
Pascal, I don't own the book so, please confirm for me first bol of the second line from your book. Is it indeed tidha as typed above?
It is actually written as "ti dha" where "ti" is labeled as a dry stroke with the middle finger (so middle finger "te").

(I have a suspicion that "tidha" sometimes means a different kind of stroke but I'm not sure).


PB

__________________
My opinion given without any warranties, expressed or implied, that it's even relevant. It would be folly to rely on my opinion without seeking more professional tabla advice. If you are suffering from a tabla condition, seek immediate attention.
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hbajpai

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Posts: 892
Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "pbercker"
At around minute 5:30 is this a special kind of "dhire dhire" or "tere tere" which is not the full hand "dhire dhire", but not a simple "tete tete" either? I'm under the impression that it's part of what he recites, and he plays it roughly half-way to where a full dhire-dhire would be. Or have I misheard?
Pascal
I finally got to the this. I believe the bol you are referring to is: DhiteDhite.
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pbercker

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Posts: 1,451
Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "hbajpai"
Quote:
Originally Posted by "pbercker"
At around minute 5:30 is this a special kind of "dhire dhire" or "tere tere" which is not the full hand "dhire dhire", but not a simple "tete tete" either? I'm under the impression that it's part of what he recites, and he plays it roughly half-way to where a full dhire-dhire would be. Or have I misheard?
Pascal
I finally got to the this. I believe the bol you are referring to is: DhiteDhite.
Ok... that makes more sense .... I couldn't clearly hear his recitation and misheard it as "dhire-dhire" . Thanks.

PB

__________________
My opinion given without any warranties, expressed or implied, that it's even relevant. It would be folly to rely on my opinion without seeking more professional tabla advice. If you are suffering from a tabla condition, seek immediate attention.
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