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Greg

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hi

I'm usually on tabla forum but am here temporarily.

Can someone enlighten me on what to put under the tuning beads to protect the finish on my Bina sitar. I have seen others with what looks like sandpaper under to protect the finish and give the beads some grip...is that what I am seeing and if so how would you install it....

Thanks

G

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CheesecakeTomek

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Reply with quote  #2 
medium grain sand paper, folded so that the top and bottom are both rough sides- not sure how important this actualy is, but that is what my teacher does, so that's what I've got. Secure to tabli with conservative amount of elmer's glue.

Cheers,
Tomek
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rex@sitar.co.za

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Reply with quote  #3 
Sandpaper is the traditional method, but it the grain will eventually wear off and doesn't look very good glued to the tabli.

At the moment I'm using a tiny piece of non-slip "shelf liner" glued to the bottom of the bead. No slip, and it doesn't scuff the finish. I'm not sure what the technical term for this non-slip rubber is (some kind of latex?), but you can get it any hardware store very inexpensively.

A bit of soft leather or chamois works well too.

- Rex
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sitardoc

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Reply with quote  #4 
what i've found to be the best yet is hard pigskin-available from any shoe-repair place. it's friction is very high and it doesn't polish like most other materials do. it also doesn't hurt to remove the bead and file a flat on it corresponding to it's angle when in use. more surface area=more grip.
peace
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #5 
DO NOT GLUE SAND PAPER TO YOUR TABLI !!!!!!!
It is ugly and hard to undo after the sand is worn off.

My Kanai Lal showed up with a strip of sand paper glued down and I was so bummed out.
Scott Hackleman thinks he may be able to undo the damage.
But after years of being on there I am sure the wood underneath is a different color from the rest of the tabli.
plus It will be very hard to get the finish to match.

My advice is to follow the advice about putting leather or chamois on the bottom of the Swan.
This will only effect the swan and will work just fine.
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povster

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "cwroyds"
DO NOT GLUE SAND PAPER TO YOUR TABLI !!!!!!!
It is ugly and hard to undo after the sand is worn off.

My Kanai Lal showed up with a strip of sand paper glued down and I was so bummed out.
Scott Hackleman thinks he may be able to undo the damage.
But after years of being on there I am sure the wood underneath is a different color from the rest of the tabli.
plus It will be very hard to get the finish to match.

My advice is to follow the advice about putting leather or chamois on the bottom of the Swan.
This will only effect the swan and will work just fine.
Agreed 100%. Chamois is a nice thing to use if the surface is without strings underneath. For example, on my rudra vin I have chamois under the main playing string beads because the beads are just running on top of the wood.

I tried chamois on the swan of a sitar a couple or three years ago and found the tarafs (sympathetics) the swan was riding on cut the chamois to pieces in a very short time. I used real leather and it works beautifully. I apply it so the smooth side is adhered with glue to the tuning bead and the "suede" side is facing the tarafs. No problems at all.

If you do not want ot use leather, then you can run a piece of sandpaper underneath the tarafs so the pressure from them will hold the sandpaper in place. When I was doing this many years ago I would cut out a rectangle of sandpaper in the right size. Then gently fold it so as not to really break the sirface of the sandpaper. Then take some scissors and make a pleasant "badge" shape on one side. Because the sandpaper was folded, when youn opened it up the badge shape would be reflected in the other side and it was pretty symmetrical. Just an aesthetic thing.

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CheesecakeTomek

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "cwroyds"
DO NOT GLUE SAND PAPER TO YOUR TABLI !!!!!!!
It is ugly and hard to undo after the sand is worn off.
With all due respect, I simply disagree. Sand paper looks just like any other strip of brown or black that a sitar might have to increase friction under the bead. A thin, even layer of elmers will ensure that the paper does not move around, thus keeping your tabli safe from damage. When time comes to change the paper, it will lift off without resistance, and the glue will stay right there, meaning the finish continues to remain unharmed. The glue can be wiped off with any soft, damp surface (towel, finger, etc), as it is water soluble, and replaced with a fresh coat.

Any damage experienced with this process must have come from non-water soluble glue, as I have done this a few times now and my tabli remains perfect underneath,

Cheers,
Tomek
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #8 
"To each his own", said the old lady as she kissed her pig.
(That is what my Grandmother would say when people disagreed about something.)

You may be correct about the glue.
I am just not going to glue aything to the tabli of my nice sitar when gluing something to the bottom of the swan works just as well.
But if it works for you then all power to ya.

My Kanai Lal has the sand paper on the tabli and I actually find it kind of hard to move the swan with accuracy.
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CheesecakeTomek

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Reply with quote  #9 
Absolutely, my friend, whatever works.

Anyways, I found your post interesting. So do you mean to say that you glue the chamois or whatever to the bottom of the swan, rather than the tabli, and so it moves with the swan, rather than the swan moves over it? So then is the piece just the shape of the bottom of the swan? Please clarify, as I don't think I have heard of this approach. Sounds like something I'd like to try.

Cheers,
Tomek
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #10 
Yes, you just glue a small piece of leather to the bottom of the swan and then trim it to the shape of the swan.
This gives the swan traction on the tabli but keeps your tabli nice and protected.
Some use pig skin, some use shoe leather, some chamois (although chamois is kind of thin).
Tony K suggested Pig Skin leather.
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trippy monkey

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Reply with quote  #11 
Pig skin leather?!?!!?

That'll go down well with our Muslim players!!!!!!

Nick
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Hamletsghost

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Reply with quote  #12 
TK & I had that discussion a while ago. What to do so the type of leather would not offend anyones religeous convictions. We thought kid (goat) leather, lambskin, or dearskin would work - If the persons sensibilities ran towards absolutely NO animal products you would then resort to the rubberized shelf liner.
Hope that helps.

Hamletsghost 8)

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Greg

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Reply with quote  #13 
Thanks People....!!

G

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barend

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "cwroyds"
Yes, you just glue a small piece of leather to the bottom of the swan and then trim it to the shape of the swan.
.
yes, this exactly what I do. I don't like the piece of sandpaper on my sitar. It doesn't look nice and it keeps shifting. With the piece of leather glued under your swan you don't see anything
and it works great.
Be careful that you don't use too much glue because it can cause a hard surface which can
scratch your sitar when you shift the swan. The bottom of the leather should be soft.
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