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povster

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Reply with quote  #1 
The Vishnipur (Bishnipur etc) Gharana usually uses two re frets on fretted instruments: only the two re's immediately following the main Sa fret. The link below shows some Bishnipur instruments: notice the surbahar, esraj and sitar all having the two re frets. (Also love the photo of my teacher's teacher, Gokul Nag with Allaudin Khan and a young Ravi Shankar, also on that page.

http://bankuraonline.in/music.htm

So I am curious if other folks have teachers or have seen the two re frets on such instruments or use the two re frets themself?

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daz199

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Reply with quote  #2 
on my previous sitar i used 2 Re's AND 2 dha's, so a chromatic sitar...i prefer it this way
if i can get frets which match my newer sitar i'll probably do the same, i dont like moving the frets every time..
i tied the komal re/dha frets with clear fishing line thread so i still had visual reference on the back of the sitar

but my teach doesn't like it 8)
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povster

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Quote:
Originally Posted by "daz199"
on my previous sitar i used 2 Re's AND 2 dha's, so a chromatic sitar...i prefer it this way
if i can get frets which match my newer sitar i'll probably do the same, i dont like moving the frets every time..
i tied the komal re/dha frets with clear fishing line thread so i still had visual reference on the back of the sitar

but my teach doesn't like it 8)
Daz - when you say your teacher doesn;t like it - do you mean the color coded fret tie or the fully fretted neck itself?

I tied my 2nd re fret with very dark braided nylon. On my rudra vin - which is fully fretted the lendth of the neck, I put a small square of white "sports tape" on the fret tie as a reference for the Sa , komal gha, pa and upper sa frets. My teacher understands but says after i have been practicing a while I will just get used to the positioning without the reference points. I think, when the vin comes back from Tony (he has done a killer job lowering the frets from the pics he sent me) I will try practicing without any reference points. The instrument itself has built-in ones anyways: the chicari posts: the chicari pegs (low sa about 1/2 way down the neck and high sa about 3/4 way down the neck). Just a matter of attention. For some reason, though, I took to the fully fretted vin quite easily, and it would honestly feel weird if I fretted it like a sitar.

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daz199

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Reply with quote  #4 
he doesn't like the idea of having all frets..i still haven't found a good answer to " why not? " usually i get..."its tradition"...
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #5 
I have always wondered about when a sitar has two frets right at Shuddha Re.
Meaning that they are touching eachother like a double fret.
Is that so they can move one down when they need Komal Re and still have Shuddha Re?
Or is there another reason for it?
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yussef ali k

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Reply with quote  #6 
Hi, all.
Old post, so CW, you may have found answers meanwhile (if other than I write below, please care to share: interesting subject).

Opinion: These extra frets are used in a slightly different way (= when they're pushed against the next fret, it's like they aren't there, there is the visual fret-gap cue the player may/may not use). When in use, these are slid onto their proper place, hence no fret-gap (which may also be a visual cue ... I'd say it may have much to do w/ what setup one has grown comfortable with).

Also, am told once 1 Ustad did just that when his sitar got stuck & he had to use a friend's (who had a 22-fr setup:
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pfintucson

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Reply with quote  #7 
Wow- nice idea- using the different color thread.... I have never tried adding frets. I guess because the sitar neck is so long to begin with and, for me at least, I like the hit-you-on-the-head visual reference of the wider re and dha spaces. Having 22 would take some getting used to for sure. Plus, except rarely, in a dhun or whatever, would you need to ;pay both komal and shudh re or dha... (correct me if I'm wrong). I would imagine any traditional teacher would frown upon it from a...."traditional" standpoint, which is so prevalent. I have no problem with anything that doesn't detract from the music but there is, IMHO, a nice feel and vibe to the missing frets, unique to the sitar and Surb.
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nicneufeld

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Reply with quote  #8 
I suppose it could also be used in a "raga mala" where the performer shifts between raags. And I'm not sure but I thought I've heard that Bhairavi could have at least shades of every swar? Maybe Pilu too? But yes, usually it seems to be Ni, Ga, and Ma, of which both versions are used in a raag, so they certainly picked the right two to leave out.

I bought two frets to add to my sitar a long time back to make this conversion, but upon applying they weren't quite appropriately sized and shaped so I never bothered, although Tony Karasek gave me excellent advice on how to do it. Adjusting frets (other than position) is a very tricky thing indeed, I eventually opted not to do it. Maybe someday I'll try again.

It also would prove very useful for fusion players who want to be able to play in a western context to allow for shifting harmonic progressions. I know when I've worked out jazz melodies and the like on sitar I'm constantly having to bend up to komal re and dha to make it work.
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fossesitar

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Reply with quote  #9 
"I know when I've worked out jazz melodies and the like on sitar I'm constantly having to bend up to komal re and dha to make it work."

Precisely. When I asked UIK about this (relating to playing surb with the sitar in the same key, which places the missing frets at awkward and unfamiliar locations) he said "that is what meend is for". The great ones are so fluent and accurate with meend they pull the notes they recquire just as easily and automatically as fretting them - 6 of one, half dozen the other, machts nicht.
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