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povster

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Is anyone familiar with the concept of a "training vin"? Apparantly a rudra vin used for teaching?
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Surbaharplayer

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Reply with quote  #2 
I've never heard of such an instrument; I've always thought the road to a veena was through sitar and later surbahar (usually in combination with singing). On the other hand; when you look at the first minute or so of the Dhrupad-movie, by Mani Kaul, you'll see Ust. Bahauddin Dagar play on a very small veena. I think I saw that very instrument when I was in India.

Curious Pov, how is your instrument coming together?
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povster

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Originally Posted by "Surbaharplayer"
I've never heard of such an instrument; I've always thought the road to a veena was through sitar and later surbahar (usually in combination with singing). On the other hand; when you look at the first minute or so of the Dhrupad-movie, by Mani Kaul, you'll see Ust. Bahauddin Dagar play on a very small veena. I think I saw that very instrument when I was in India.

Curious Pov, how is your instrument coming together?
Agreed, to my limited knowledge, about the road to the vin. It was a term I heard from someone that heard it from someone. Neither of us were familiar with it.

I noticed Bahauddin Dagar playing that smaller vin in the opening of DHRUPAD and was a little puzzled by the fact he was playing over the shoulder. It may have had to do with his age/ (boy he was young there).

My own instrument is waiting for Tony K. to return from India. He is quite geared up to get it as good as it can be and we have had several conversations and emails about it. Actually a tremendous learning experience for me and one that is, well, fun. I have returned to sitar in the meantime and my sitar is sounding and feeling fantastic. The few months I spent with the vin has had a profound influence on my sitar efforts.

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Mulamoodan

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Reply with quote  #4 
I noticed Bahauddin Dagar playing that smaller vin in the opening of DHRUPAD and was a little puzzled by the fact he was playing over the shoulder. It may have had to do with his age/ (boy he was young there).
quote]

My knowledge here is limited, but to my understanding, vin used to be played over the shoulder. It was changed by one of the Dagars (Zia?) to be played on the floor like we see today. It is borrowed from the South Indian tradition of saraswathi veena playing posture.
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povster

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Quote:
Originally Posted by "Mulamoodan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by "povster"
I noticed Bahauddin Dagar playing that smaller vin in the opening of DHRUPAD and was a little puzzled by the fact he was playing over the shoulder. It may have had to do with his age/ (boy he was young there).
quote]

My knowledge here is limited, but to my understanding, vin used to be played over the shoulder. It was changed by one of the Dagars (Zia?) to be played on the floor like we see today. It is borrowed from the South Indian tradition of saraswathi veena playing posture.
Quite true, Mulamoodan. Zia Moihuddin Dagar indeed modified the rudra vin for a playing position similar to the South Indian Saraswati Veena. The vin still is payed over the shoulder by the likes of Asad Ali Khan and Shamsuddin Faridi Desai. I BELIEVE (not 100%) that the South indian style is unique tot he Dagarbani players.

I was a little unclear in my previous post. I was curious as to why the youn Bahauddin was playing in the more traditional method. My assumption is that the Dagar style vins are considerably larger and heavier and that may have been an issue for younger players?

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Surbaharplayer

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Originally Posted by "povster"
My assumption is that the Dagar style vins are considerably larger and heavier and that may have been an issue for younger players?
I did'nt touch the smaller veena when I was in Mumbai, but I noticed it in the Dagar music room, but it was VERY small and looked light. The Dagar veena's are almost twice as heavy as the traditional ones so my guess is Bahauddin played it indeed because the Dagar veena's would be too heavy for him at such an age.

Also I know that Bahauddin was playing sitar at that age (and maybe surbahar, which he played during his teens). I think the tradional veena, because of the lefthand position is closer to sitar (and surb), compared to the Dagarveena.
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Surbaharplayer

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In this interview Bahauddin mentions he was trained veena in the traditional position and also discusses the differences between the two different postures:

http://swaratala.blogspot.com/2007/04/bahauddin-dagar-in-beginning-your-ustad.html
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povster

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Thanks for that Surbaharplayer. That was a wonderful interview. I love Bahauddin's way of expressing himself. Very down to earth and very informative.
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musicslug

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Reply with quote  #9 
hi Povster,

where did you hear the term 'training vina'?

I did hear that Bahauddin has a 3/4 size vina - but that's for travel, and have also heard of kid-size instruments - especially when the kid has a famous musician (with a relationship with an instrument maker) for a dad....
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povster

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Quote:
Originally Posted by "musicslug"
hi Povster,

where did you hear the term 'training vina'?
I heard it from a musican who heard it from someone else. When he told me about it we both shared a puzzled look as the term does not really make a lot of sense. But I thought I'd ask anyway. To paraphrase Shakespeare: There are more terms in heaven and earth, musicslug, than are dreamt of in our glossaries.

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musicslug

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Reply with quote  #11 
perhaps it has two little tumbas attached to either side of one of the larger ones so it won't tip over.
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westsea

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http://www.deepmusic.org/temp/training_vin.jpg
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povster

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OK. I love and respect the vin greatly but I have to say this has taken a whole different twist. This is SO out there that it just makes me laugh.

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musicslug

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Reply with quote  #14 
I'm thinking that this puts westsea in the 'ICM is fun' category.
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povster

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Quote:
Originally Posted by "musicslug"
I'm thinking that this puts westsea in the 'ICM is fun' category.
Oh snap!

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