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AbdulLatif

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Posts: 449
Reply with quote  #31 
Wow! This threads taken more twists than a mojave sidewinder. Although a sidewinder runs out of venom

I'd say its near impossible to achieve recognition as a master of ICM without taking the established route. The only exampleI know of is the South Indian Veen player Balachander. On the rudraveena.com website there is also a mention of a Rudra Veena player who bucked the system and achieved some noteriety but was shunned by the mainstream folks.

The transmission of technique, raas and performance rules of ICM really does require a teacher. However there is also an Elitest "Guild" mentality that permeates ICM. Socioeconomic factors are a big part of it, any of the biographies back to at least Tansen discuss rivalries between musicians seeking higher status at court and therefore more economic security. It follows that the "Trade" would be restricted to extended families as part of a network of reciprocity. Falling to the bottom in India is literally a question of life and death so maybe this accounts for the extreme protectionism. There is also the inspiring example of Pt. D. Paluskar who went against tradition and established academies funded by private citizens to train students regardless of need based on their ability. The experiment sadly faded away partly because of opposition from the "Guilds" of hereditary musicians. Maybe we could look to his example as a model for the future of ICM.

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tommy

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Reply with quote  #32 
Wow!

I posted this last week, went on a surf trip and came back to this?! I don't know whether to laugh or shake my head at some of these responses.

I genuinely didn't think my mere opinion could incite something like this. To throw more fuel on this fire would be a stupid move, but I just have to say one thing.

Whoever you are and whatever beliefs you have about art/life/politics/music/religion/anything etc should be believed in with so much unwavering faith that no one else's opinions of you or your beliefs should make you feel threatened at all. The solidification of your beliefs come with the understanding that not everyone agrees with you or should agree with you. If the opinion of some complete and total stranger on a message board can make you feel threatened and vulnerable enough to make you insult their character, then you either need to grow up or re-examine your beliefs.

Secondly, to put any musician on a godlike pedestal is foolish. I'm sure many of you, like myself, have performed with or learned from some rather "famous" musicians in your life and I'm sure you've come to learn that a) Some of the best performers make the worst teachers, b) Some of the best performers are actually rather undesireable people to interact with on a personal level, and most importantly c) The biggest let-down is when you discover that the only thing your emulated god has in his or her life is music. I respect a person who has a job, a family, a multi-faceted life as well as great musicianship much more than an amazing prodigy who's done nothing with his or her life except play music 12 hours a day every day. Music is the most important ASPECT of my life, but to only play music alone and let it consume me would make my life a very narrow and bland one.

(Sorry didn't mean for that to sound preachy)

and p.s. yes I meant the "thonks" not the tarif "strums."
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sarod

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Posts: 43
Reply with quote  #33 
well, I've heard/saw Nikhil, Ravi Shankar, lets see, Manilal Nag, Indranil Bhattachaya and Vilayat khan live up close back in the seventies. Nikhil banerjee used to come to the Ali Akbar college where I even took a few lessons from him. So what Im basically saying is I've heard em and seen them all. Shahid Parvez is a very good sitar player....he brings his own personality to stage as well his his securities as well as insecurities. This is the case with all musicians especially the ones who are 45+- in age at this time. Its understandable!!! Shahid Parvez, Budhaditya Mukherjee and a couple of others are like "" hey, if Ravi and Vilayat are etched in the "history Books"" what about us????? As far as technique goes these guys are awesome! Shahid has advanced in the tal and laya and budhaditya has a very good sence of tone and melody. The fortunate thing is, that is good that still is high quality musicianship, but what about raagdari???? People seem to be too preoccupied by speed, (taans, fast jhalla) and rythm!! what about development of the raag???? whatever happened to enjoying a beautiful 1 hour alaap?????
A couple of years ago I took a world class violinist to 3 sitar concerts back to back one was budhaditya Mukherjee, shahid parvez and Shubhroto Roy Chaudhary. Ok let me tell you out of the three Shubhorotro played real music (our opinion) He played without the histonics, the showmanship! plus he delved into the raag! played a beautiful Shuddh Basant. devloped and treated the raag beautifully.
I guess it all depends on who you ask!! someone older and seasoned in this music will enjoy someone like Manilal or shubhroto
someone younger might say Shahid, Budhaditya or someone in simmilar in that league
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sarod

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Posts: 43
Reply with quote  #34 
Oh btw Stephen James started learning the violin first then the sarod with Pandit Vasant Rai. Stephen first went ot Vasant Rai back in 1970-71 when he was just a teen. Vasant Rai had a school in Brooklyn Heights then. Stephen learned for a good decade or so with Vasant Rai, and when in the early 80s when Vasant Rai got cancer and passed Stephen continued his training with Pandit Ravi Shankar. It was the logical thing to do for Stephen since Both Vasant Rai and Ravi Shankar were students of Allauddin Khan it was the same gharana.
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