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AbdulLatif

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Reply with quote  #1 
Greeting, I have a "Kinnara Veena" actually a female tamboura with sympathetic strings and 3 ebony bridges. Yep 3, one on the upper tumba one on the lower and a large taraf bridge. Very tricky set up and jawari and I've got it where I like it. Heres the problem:

The bridges are made from a very soft ebony, probably gabon ebony a cheap substitute for the real stuff from the congo, any way the jawari wears out fast. I've heard about a polymer plastic or epoxy treatment used on antique furniture and home restoration that sprays or brushes on and fills the cell structure of porous or dry rotted wood adding strength and workability to the old wood. Any one know of or used these products? The other solution, make new bridges, is a last resort for me since the jawari is so tricky and making new bridges is difficult and time consuming. :?
thanks dudes and dudettes.

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element-82

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Reply with quote  #2 
Hi Abdul,
sounds like an interesting instrument. Does it sound like a tanpura or something different? I would love to hear a sound clip if you have one. For ebony, I make sure that after I do the jawari, I "burnish" it with very fine emery paper. it is more like cloth. I think it makes the surface a little harder. It adds a slight sheen to the jawari and more harmonics (maybe it is just the jawari, but it seems so).

The other thing I have noticed is that if you dont play every day or so, the string tension can sink into the jawari a bit, much like it does on horn, not sure if it is faster or not. I usually slip a thin, hard plastic sheet between the jawari and strings. Sounds like an interesting project to replace the jawaris But, I think you can just remove them and pass one of those stiff foam sanding blocks, med grit over the top to refresh it. It is very forgiving and will probably not ruin the overall jawari, if you are careful. I should just fix what is there.


Pb

Quote:
Originally Posted by "AbdulLatif"
Greeting, I have a "Kinnara Veena" actually a female tamboura with sympathetic strings and 3 ebony bridges. Yep 3, one on the upper tumba one on the lower and a large taraf bridge. Very tricky set up and jawari and I've got it where I like it. Heres the problem:

The bridges are made from a very soft ebony, probably gabon ebony a cheap substitute for the real stuff from the congo, any way the jawari wears out fast. I've heard about a polymer plastic or epoxy treatment used on antique furniture and home restoration that sprays or brushes on and fills the cell structure of porous or dry rotted wood adding strength and workability to the old wood. Any one know of or used these products? The other solution, make new bridges, is a last resort for me since the jawari is so tricky and making new bridges is difficult and time consuming. :?
thanks dudes and dudettes.

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Surbahar Dude (formerly Sitar Dude)
http://sitarplayer.net
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AbdulLatif

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Posts: 449
Reply with quote  #3 
yo Lead Dude hows they hangin?
Yep she does get the string sink after only a few days! I'll give your method a go. I like to have instant tamboura on tap, when a novice stops by, they can usually play a tamb thats in tune and not to fussy. I love playing to a live tamboura..its the best for me.

The instrument I have is just a tamboura, despite the name. It has an upper gourd with the dandi running through it and a small shallow tabli to hold the bridge. The tarafs are like a sitar. It does have an amazing sound all the usual tamboura harmonics and partials along with a tambora jawari on the taraf bridge so the overall sound is shaped by the raag the tarafs are tuned too. the Boiz of Miraj make them, mine is from the 60's. I keep promising sound files and one of these days when a tech type visits I'll corral him into operating my home studio. By the time I set up the mics, tune the instruments etc I'm to frazzeled to play ops:

I'm still in search of the hardener though so Anyone?

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"Words are said to have a delusive nature (Mahamaya Matrika) because the word itself, although it may contain a reference to an object is often surrounded by clusters or Kulas of lesser Shaktis...."
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element-82

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Reply with quote  #4 
Hey,
Just a few days and you get the "sink in"? That is just bad ebony, me thinks, sapwood or one of the softer varieties. I like the tamboura sound too, but for now I have to put up with an electric, unless I can convince my wife to play it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by "AbdulLatif"
yo Lead Dude hows they hangin?
Yep she does get the string sink after only a few days! I'll give your method a go. I like to have instant tamboura on tap, when a novice stops by, they can usually play a tamb thats in tune and not to fussy. I love playing to a live tamboura..its the best for me.

The instrument I have is just a tamboura, despite the name. It has an upper gourd with the dandi running through it and a small shallow tabli to hold the bridge. The tarafs are like a sitar. It does have an amazing sound all the usual tamboura harmonics and partials along with a tambora jawari on the taraf bridge so the overall sound is shaped by the raag the tarafs are tuned too. the Boiz of Miraj make them, mine is from the 60's. I keep promising sound files and one of these days when a tech type visits I'll corral him into operating my home studio. By the time I set up the mics, tune the instruments etc I'm to frazzeled to play ops:

I'm still in search of the hardener though so Anyone?

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Surbahar Dude (formerly Sitar Dude)
http://sitarplayer.net
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AbdulLatif

Registered:
Posts: 449
Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "element-82"
Hey,
Just a few days and you get the "sink in"? That is just bad ebony, me thinks, sapwood or one of the softer varieties. I like the tamboura sound too, but for now I have to put up with an electric, unless I can convince my wife to play it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by "AbdulLatif"
yo Lead Dude hows they hangin?
Yep she does get the string sink after only a few days! I'll give your method a go. I like to have instant tamboura on tap, when a novice stops by, they can usually play a tamb thats in tune and not to fussy. I love playing to a live tamboura..its the best for me.

The instrument I have is just a tamboura, despite the name. It has an upper gourd with the dandi running through it and a small shallow tabli to hold the bridge. The tarafs are like a sitar. It does have an amazing sound all the usual tamboura harmonics and partials along with a tambora jawari on the taraf bridge so the overall sound is shaped by the raag the tarafs are tuned too. the Boiz of Miraj make them, mine is from the 60's. I keep promising sound files and one of these days when a tech type visits I'll corral him into operating my home studio. By the time I set up the mics, tune the instruments etc I'm to frazzeled to play ops:

I'm still in search of the hardener though so Anyone?
Yep I believe its the "other Ebony" my clarinet phase gave me a good education on the types of wood labled as ebony and the real deal is a shrub (not a tree) harvested in the Congo and floated down rivers in billits for export. The terrible wars in that region have made true ebony rare, unethical to use IMO like blood diamonds, and an endangered species. For clarinets the wood is turned to shape and soaked in linseed oil for up to 8 years before being machined. I think I have a low grade gabon Ebony, the most widely used substitute wood these days and a really fine wood for many applications it just lacks the really dense properties of true ebony. Nevermore has a real ebony bridge and after a year shows no meaningful wear and is actually still opening up. I will in the meantime use the credit card guard

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"Words are said to have a delusive nature (Mahamaya Matrika) because the word itself, although it may contain a reference to an object is often surrounded by clusters or Kulas of lesser Shaktis...."
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coyootie

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Posts: 490
Reply with quote  #6 
dalbergia melanoxylon
this is the stuff you want, it is what is actually used for bagpipes and most fine woodwinds.... it is hard as rocks and considerably harder and denser than ebony. you can probably get billets the right size from Hibdon Hardwoods in St Louis, and many other sources no doubt.
af. blackwood is a rosewood specie and more resiny than ebony, which has lots more silica( for just this reason it is precisely NOT the best wood for pegs, Blackwood is!!!) and I beleive also will have better acoustic properties always.
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AbdulLatif

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Posts: 449
Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "coyootie"
dalbergia melanoxylon
this is the stuff you want, it is what is actually used for bagpipes and most fine woodwinds.... it is hard as rocks and considerably harder and denser than ebony. you can probably get billets the right size from Hibdon Hardwoods in St Louis, and many other sources no doubt.
af. blackwood is a rosewood specie and more resiny than ebony, which has lots more silica( for just this reason it is precisely NOT the best wood for pegs, Blackwood is!!!) and I beleive also will have better acoustic properties always.
Hey BaBaDaDa, Are we on the same page but using different terminology? Is the Delbergia the Shrub used for Henri Selmer, Buffet Crampon clarinets and such? I knew the substitute was a tree, makes nice fretboards and furniture but not dense enough for bridges or waterlogged pipes and bores. I think we mean the same stuff. But!

ARRRRRGHHHH What about the filler I'm looking for? I'm asking because I'm not even sure where to start looking ops: :wink:

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"Words are said to have a delusive nature (Mahamaya Matrika) because the word itself, although it may contain a reference to an object is often surrounded by clusters or Kulas of lesser Shaktis...."
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festus

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Reply with quote  #8 
The filler that I think you are referring to is an Epoxy.... I have used it for outdoor repair to wood..... And it works fine, ... sandable, fileable ...But I don't know about using it for jawari, never tried it for this purpose.
Google - epoxy filler rot......... lot's of products on the market.
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AbdulLatif

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Posts: 449
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "festus"
The filler that I think you are referring to is an Epoxy.... I have used it for outdoor repair to wood..... And it works fine, ... sandable, fileable ...But I don't know about using it for jawari, never tried it for this purpose.
Google - epoxy filler rot......... lot's of products on the market.
BINGO may you be blessed by the mystic knights of the Oingo Boingo. Thas the stuff. I had quit slammin boards when that came on the market. Thank you Festus (if that is your name, which I doubt :wink: )

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"Words are said to have a delusive nature (Mahamaya Matrika) because the word itself, although it may contain a reference to an object is often surrounded by clusters or Kulas of lesser Shaktis...."
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festus

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Reply with quote  #10 
You are very welcome and very correct concerning my "name" :wink:
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AbdulLatif

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "festus"
You are very welcome and very correct concerning my "name" :wink:
See I news ya was bob jo bob

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"Words are said to have a delusive nature (Mahamaya Matrika) because the word itself, although it may contain a reference to an object is often surrounded by clusters or Kulas of lesser Shaktis...."
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