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trippy monkey

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Reply with quote  #16 
Pov
Yes, I was a bit worried about 'extra' noises being recorded too so I clicked on a few other sites & found there was no other noise bar the music.

I presume you can TURN OFF this email notification noise?!???!!

Nick
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povster

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "trippy
Pov
Yes, I was a bit worried about 'extra' noises being recorded too so I clicked on a few other sites & found there was no other noise bar the music.

I presume you can TURN OFF this email notification noise?!???!!

Nick
Yes, one can control all of the sounds on a Windows machine - assume the same for Mac and Linux. I loathe computer noises so have turned off almost all sounds except those indicating either a warning or an error. In Windows one goes to Control Panel and then Sounds and you can select what events have associated sounds and just choose "none" to silence that bundar!

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Bill

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "panchamkauns"
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Bill"
If you or anyone can locate the original analog and re-record it to 16, 24, or32 bit 48,000Hz wave or flac that would be awesome.
OK, I’ll be a smartass: with recordings this bad, it won’t be ”awesome”, it will in fact sound pretty much the same.
Unless someone had recorded Annapurna Devi with state-of-the-art equipment and has been hoarding it all these years I suspect this is about as good as it's going to get.
That said, it is possible, depending on the the condition of the original media, to decently restore analog recordings with digital software or analog equipment.
However, if the recording is digitized to a compressed format and the original analog source is lost then there's not much you can do to improve the quality without distorting or degrading it more.
Locating the original analog source for this .mp3 would indeed be awesome as it would give someone with the technical skill currently or in a future generation greater opportunity to listen to the recording closer to what it may have sounded live.
There are many examples of valuable documents being saved from being lost forever and kept for future generations by the efforts of various individuals to archive them properly. As I said before .MP3 is a lossy format - the digital information is degraded little by little through the process of compression each time a copy is made.
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trippy monkey

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Reply with quote  #19 
As a little thinking 'backwards' here....

Just how good would recording equipment have been in the 40s to 60s when the Devi-ji tapes were done?
Is it all possible original copies have survived the decades?
Would a copy FROM the original tapes have been much different from the source tapes?
Can I safely say these were done on a, potentially, large Reel-to-Reel in the 'mixing' room of the performance hall?????

We know how several copies of analog cassette tapes ALWAYS used to decrease in quality at every copy taken.
Will we EVER know the history of these recordings. As they all seem to be MP3s, where are the tapes, reels or cassettes, the MP3s came from?

Nick
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Bill

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "trippy
As a little thinking 'backwards' here....

Just how good would recording equipment have been in the 40s to 60s when the Devi-ji tapes were done?
Is it all possible original copies have survived the decades?
Would a copy FROM the original tapes have been much different from the source tapes?
Can I safely say these were done on a, potentially, large Reel-to-Reel in the 'mixing' room of the performance hall?????

We know how several copies of analog cassette tapes ALWAYS used to decrease in quality at every copy taken.
Will we EVER know the history of these recordings. As they all seem to be MP3s, where are the tapes, reels or cassettes, the MP3s came from?

Nick
Nick,

I think that these are reasonable concerns.
Yes, believe it or not, at the period these were probably recorded there was very good recording equipment available, especially of European make.
The quality of the recording would also depend on the speed at which it was recorded. The current condition of the original tapes would depend on how they have been stored. If the recording was made at a slow speed even with average equipment of that period, and the tapes were not damaged by flood or fire then it wouldn't be far-fetched to believe that the actual recording is of much better quality than we have here.
I suspect that the original tapes do still exist in someone's archive and that, as you suggest, a low-quality cassette was produced from which several copies of copies were made until we eventually end up with the lowest quality MP3 the result of amateur editing and even more copies of copies.

Think what state we'd be in if all sitars were machined copies of copies of one original sitar and no concern was given for the sound of the instrument but only for it's resemblance to the original and the name on the badge.

I understand what Panchamkauns is getting at - how poor does a recording have to degrade before it's no longer acceptable - and no longer an acceptable representation of a musician of Annapurna's stature - even despite it's rarity ??
Or have we convinced ourselves that anything is better than nothing simply because there doesn't appear to be alternative?

Bill
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panchamkauns

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Reply with quote  #21 
What I’m getting at is not that the recordings are in some way ”too bad” ... I’m just saying they are probably so bad to begin with that the MP3 conversion didn’t degrade them appreciably.
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Bill

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "panchamkauns"
What I’m getting at is not that the recordings are in some way ”too bad” ... I’m just saying they are probably so bad to begin with that the MP3 conversion didn’t degrade them appreciably.
Understood. Of course I am simply being optimistic - both in regard to your statement and to the possibility that the original recording would ever be found.

(...have I been dreaming or did I read somewhere recently that an unlabeled, unpublished live recording of Nikhil Banerjee was unearthed recently in a German radio station vault - only because someone was looking through the log books and happened to recognized the name?)
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panchamkauns

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Reply with quote  #23 
By the way,

I got so caught up in discussing Annapurna Devi that I forgot there were also recordings of Dabir Khan! Wasn’t he the last of Tansen’s family?

I like his Lalita-Gouri ...!

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Subhranil.Sarkar

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Reply with quote  #24 
Hi everybody...
if the Malkauns uploaded by Devdutt is the same Malkauns that Rajan ParrikarJi uploaded... then you are in for a little disappointment... that Malkuns is not AnnapurnaJi's ....
well... the playing style is easily recognizable .... to find the artist's signature moves listen to the following passages ... 5:52 , 6:20 - 6:29 ... 8:58 - 9:17 and it would be easier to understand the actual artist...
so in spite of the initial disappointment... there are reasons to rejoice as that is a nice Malkauns recording of Balaram PathakJi ...

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bibhas

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Reply with quote  #25 
Hey Subhranil,
There was a debate this sometime back and I sent the recording to a former guruji of mine who is Annapurna Devi's student and he confirmed that it was indeed Guruma playing that Malkauns. I can't remember excatly but I think she even says a word or two in the track.

Bibhas
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Subhranil.Sarkar

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Reply with quote  #26 
Hello Bibhas....

Well...I can upload a few audio samples of BalaramJi speech from concerts ... and one can cross check that with the voice present in this recording.. and at the end of the examination you wont find any difference in pitch, style or execution....
however that will be a very crude way of determining the artist....
the more important thing is the 'baaj'....
first of all I have no doubt what-so-ever about the fact that this artist is BalaramJi.... however I would ask you to carefully listen to the points in time-line mentioned earlier (also add 16:13 -16:20 to it).... BalaramJi was a wonderful innovator and I have highlighted the areas which have his signature moves....most important of them all --> harmonic overtones...
Hence a few points worth considering... (in case this recording is taken as AnnapurnaJi's)
1. BalaramJi's birth year is 1926 but it's highly unlikely that AnnapurnaJi, although born after him, used harmonics having been inspired by BalaramJi .. She, as her close ones and students say, has always been a traditionalist...
2. The instrument being played is the Sitar (accompanied by tabla) and not the Surbahar, AnnapurnaJi's preferred instrument... (and from the sound of it ... the tabla accompaniment is by none other than Kishen MaharajJi)

Lastly and most importantly I am attaching a link to BalaramJi's music that I had uploaded a while back....
http://www.mediafire.com/?cjkqi7cjrks
This recording starts with BalaramJi playing one of his signature moves...which are also found in this much debated Malkauns recording of his... similar use of harmonics.... also if you follow the pulling style and phrasing patterns you will find obvious similarities...
However to make things even easier I am uploading a part of the much debated Malkauns... play this Malkauns excerpt first and then the other recording of Balaram Ji ... for cross checking here is it's starting time from the one originally uploaded by Devdutt >> 08:58
http://www.mediafire.com/?ef5k52b6z5p1n5h

Other interesting info>>> (for those who may not know) ... BalaramJi was a student of both his father and uncle.... and his uncle was the famous Rameshwar Pathak who was one of the inspirations of Ravi ShankarJi...

well that's it... I am done

Best

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trippy monkey

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Reply with quote  #27 
Are we all listening to the same Malkauns here???? I DO remember a woman's voice somewhere in the middle, certainly not a man's anyway!!

It's all very strange?!?!!?

Nick
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Subhranil.Sarkar

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Reply with quote  #28 
Voice of Pandit Balaram Pathak during the concert....
Shuddh kalyan
http://www.mediafire.com/?g7zprtywlmetajd
Malkauns
http://www.mediafire.com/?4hy9z907zjegviw

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privatelabel

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Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Subhranil.Sarkar"
Hello Bibhas....

Well...I can upload a few audio samples of BalaramJi speech from concerts ... and one can cross check that with the voice present in this recording.. and at the end of the examination you wont find any difference in pitch, style or execution....
however that will be a very crude way of determining the artist....
the more important thing is the 'baaj'....
first of all I have no doubt what-so-ever about the fact that this artist is BalaramJi.... however I would ask you to carefully listen to the points in time-line mentioned earlier (also add 16:13 -16:20 to it).... BalaramJi was a wonderful innovator and I have highlighted the areas which have his signature moves....most important of them all --> harmonic overtones...
Hence a few points worth considering... (in case this recording is taken as AnnapurnaJi's)
1. BalaramJi's birth year is 1926 but it's highly unlikely that AnnapurnaJi, although born after him, used harmonics having been inspired by BalaramJi .. She, as her close ones and students say, has always been a traditionalist...
2. The instrument being played is the Sitar (accompanied by tabla) and not the Surbahar, AnnapurnaJi's preferred instrument... (and from the sound of it ... the tabla accompaniment is by none other than Kishen MaharajJi)

Lastly and most importantly I am attaching a link to BalaramJi's music that I had uploaded a while back....
http://www.mediafire.com/?cjkqi7cjrks
This recording starts with BalaramJi playing one of his signature moves...which are also found in this much debated Malkauns recording of his... similar use of harmonics.... also if you follow the pulling style and phrasing patterns you will find obvious similarities...
However to make things even easier I am uploading a part of the much debated Malkauns... play this Malkauns excerpt first and then the other recording of Balaram Ji ... for cross checking here is it's starting time from the one originally uploaded by Devdutt >> 08:58
http://www.mediafire.com/?ef5k52b6z5p1n5h

Other interesting info>>> (for those who may not know) ... BalaramJi was a student of both his father and uncle.... and his uncle was the famous Rameshwar Pathak who was one of the inspirations of Ravi ShankarJi...

well that's it... I am done

Best
Fantastic alap from the late Pandit. Thanks for posting, Subhranilji. What raga is it?

PL
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Subhranil.Sarkar

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Reply with quote  #30 
Charukeshi ....
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