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desh

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Reply with quote  #1 
Sadly, these type of stories seem to be occurring more frequently.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/Apr/23/sitarist-mourning-loss-of-prized-instrument/?#article-copy
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vbnautilus

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Reply with quote  #2 
I assume "Kanial" is Kanai Lal?

Very sad to lose an instrument like this. But... 150K, really? Has a sitar ever actually sold for that much?
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barend

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Reply with quote  #3 
Sitar valued by an expert at 100,000$
That is a 'little bit' exaggerated.
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Hamletsghost

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Reply with quote  #4 
WOW

I tend to agree with the 100 to 150k a little inflated.
But then again. We've seen Kanai lal veenas etc priced 15 to 20k without the provenance of this one.
How long & how many vintage instruments would Kartikbhai have to search for & play to get "that" sound of his now destroyed one? And then what would someone gouge him for it IF he could find one?
What is the value of the "known" Nodu Mulliks?
Hard to put a value on Hendrix' Woodstock srat. Rumored 6mil was paid anonymously then it was donated to the Hendrix museum.
Panditji's Nodu that was used at Monterrey & Woodstock then destroyed by Air France has been proclaimed a "PRICELESS" relic.
Hundred of thousands paid for Claptons guitars he sold for charity.
When a Stratocaster, 58 I believe, without big name provenance, recently sold for 70k it makes you wonder.
ARE some of these instruments we love and treasure with great provenance finally becoming the recognized masterpieces in terms of value that they should be? Or will the airlines et al still be looking at them as cheap tourist oddities? Them cheap Injun banjo's.
If nothing else this may finally be the breaking point for airlines to recognize they better start realizing that fragile is just that & instrument destruction will really hit their bottom line.

If it was a Stradivarius they would be begging to settle.
Just my humble opinion I could be wrong.

Hamletsghost 8)

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coyootie

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Reply with quote  #5 
funny numbers and prices- I've never heard of a Chinese pipa anywhere near a $50,000 value as mentioned in the link article, and exactly who is the "indian expert" throwing around a value of $100,000....?
has ANYONE on this forum or anywhere else ever seen proof of a sitar selling for $100,000.
not to belittle what a fine used instrument is worth to the player whose used it for years, but there ARE finite limits.Some of the absurdities occur when rock star guitars get up in the millions- for what? any different than the same model that came out of a Fender factory?
you can buy a violin from a Chinese factory for $50, or a custom built one from a great luthier , for mebbe $30,000.the price and value goes all over the place, but is the $50 violin worth zillions coz Joshua Bell played "twinkle twinkle little star' on it once and autographed it with a ballpoint pen?
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coyootie

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Reply with quote  #6 
oh boy, I see the article had a second page and Rikhi Ram's firm is valuing it at $100,000- 150,000. golly, I'd heard RR was overpriced or at least pricey, but that certainly makes it more -understandable...?
I doubt any musician in his right mind in India has paid $100,000 for anybody's 38 year old Kanai Lal.
our man Trippy has scored some great ,seasoned and worthy instruments, maybe Kartikjee should contact him.
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trippy monkey

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Reply with quote  #7 
OH MY GOD!!?!?!??!!??
LOL LOL LOL

Well those prices do look MIGHTY FINE!!!

Nick
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barend

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Reply with quote  #8 
I have a hard time believing this. Maybe it was 100,000 rupees? Why would anyone leave a 100,000$ sitar in the hands of aircraft staff? Why would anyone fly with such a valuable instrument in the first place? And also why wasn't it isn't insured better if it's worth that much?
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trippy monkey

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Reply with quote  #9 
So many relevant questions & so few, ie NONE, answers?!!?!?

Nick
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nicneufeld

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Reply with quote  #10 
While I sympathize with the pain of losing a cherished instrument...

...this one reeks to me a bit. 100k is mentioned several times throughout the piece and so is probably not a chance mismatch of currencies, especially since the airline offered him more than what 100,000 rupees would convert to. Sure, you can't get a new sitar made by Nodu Mullick any more, just like I can't go fishing with my grandpa anymore...some things are just "priceless". Priceless doesn't mean "really incredibly expensive". Soaking the airlines for 100k just looks like opportunism (although I'd be surprised if it works). $1700 is too low for such an instrument, I would agree, but 100k is just...well, granted, it would be believable for certain western classical instruments, ie Stradivarius, but the simple fact is, while there might be people lining up to pay 100,000 dollars for a certain violin, has ANYONE ever paid six figures for a sitar? It may not seem fair that the variances in values is so extreme, but it is what it is. As for Rikhi Ram stating it was valued at 100k USD, maybe they made the mistake of currency mismatch, I don't know. But it sounds like they are coming to the aid of a sitarist with a tremendously over-inflated estimate. If they've ever sold a sitar for anything approaching that price I'd be quite surprised!

"Older sitars can be found online for $4,000 to $7,000" --really? If 4,000 USD is the bottom end of a price range for used sitars, I've got one I'd LOVE to sell!
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trippy monkey

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Reply with quote  #11 
Only the ONE????? Nic???

Nick
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coyootie

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Reply with quote  #12 
-and as I noted before- merely because Kanai lal made it does NOT guarantee a great instrument. I had one he'd made some years back, older vintage maybe 60's-70's, very reedy weak tone and ALL the taraf pegs were fit so badly they were basically useless. Gotten from him directly by a serious student who'd gotten other very good instruments from him.the student thought it was the best thing ever and it was quite the case of the emperor's new clothes.
so ,should we say any Kanai lal sitar is priceless, or even high value? I'd say no.It's all the individual instrument, not the badge or brand name.
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Hamletsghost

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Reply with quote  #13 
All too true Sir Trippster - coyootie - et al

BUT :roll:

When the principal violinist with the Milwaukee (Minneapolis?) symphony was mugged, tasered & the Strad (on loan ) was recently stolen ( and recovered thank god) the estimated value was 36 MILLION dollars.
Not counting case and bow

Obviously Kartik Bhais instrument is a treasured piece, and I too am very incredulous of the price of 100k - even with my skepticism it MAY take quite a few roops to replace this one to his satisfaction.

As I said value is all relative to rarity and what someone is willing to pay.
Jimi's Woodstock Strat because it's THE white Woodstock Strat was worth 6 million to someone.
What would a collector - not even a lover of Indian music - be willing to pay to own Panditji's rebuilt Nodu sitar used at Monterrey & Woodstock that you saw?
That instrument is reported to not even be a shadow of its former self except maybe cosmetically.
Astronomical price could be I'm sure if the family ever let it go.

But the sitar in question here, while a beauty, is not THAT sitar.

I believe Kartik's best course of action would be to search the world for a gem replacement, no matter the cost, and then present the airlines with the bill, plus a bill for expenses, time, lost revenue, attorney fees and anything else his solicitor believes is applicable. Also send his damaged one to tony k to rebuild.
That way he has a concrete formula relating to true replacement costs.
This rather than throwing out vast numbers that have no verifiable proof, or previously recognized history of the value of such an item.

Last year there was a story of a very rare valuable vintage Gibson 335 that was eaten by a sorting machine at O'Hare Airport. The musician involved had the instrument for years and was his touring guitar. Gibson did a total rebuild of that instrument, as well as building him a hand built custom shop new guitar to match the old one. Vintage pickups and all.
The airlines happily paid the tab & you know that wasn't cheap.

I still feel the airlines need to come up with a better means of securing these precious instruments no matter a horn or a harpsichord, but until it REALLY hits their bottom line nothing will change.
Remember the Pinto theory.

It would behoove anyone traveling with an instrument to insure for TOP dollar - the airlines :evil: & their employees (who was it that recently stole that Mohan veena hmmmm?) could care less about you or the worlds loss of a musical treasure, unless it gets BIG press coverage, or is the aforementioned million dollar museum pieces.

JMHO

Hamletsghost 8)

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