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sitar amplification - pickups and amps MELODIC INSTRUMENTS
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674 posts rex 674 posts
rex
Hello

The one thing I like about the Rode NT3 is that it can be battery powered, so you don't need an external power supply ("phantom power" which is power delivered to the mic through the XLR cable). This was important for me too a few years ago when I was going a lot of guerillla gigging and couldn't be assured of plugging into an amp with phantom power.

Yes, you'll need a mixer or amp that supplies phantom power through the mic's XLR input. Most mixers and many acoustic amps do this. However, if that's problem you'll need to find a condenser mic that can run off a battery or find a good dynamic mic alternative.

Thanks HG, I agree, those Electrovoice mics seem very promising. I would proably go for that one (H.G knows his gear) if it's not out of your price range. Ekas, you can order them through musicians friend, they'll ship the mic to Canada:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/EV-PL80-Dynamic-Mic?sku=482603

I live in Canada too and order most of my audio equipment from M.F. They have an excellent return policy, so if you aren't happy with the mic you can return it. (This is also sometimes a good way to "rent" expensive equipment: buy it, use it for a few weeks, and return it for a full refund.. !) If you don't want to order through the net, find your closest branch of Long & McQuade in Canada - they also have competetive prices and a no-questions-asked return policy.
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Sitarfixer Senior Member 1,937 posts
Sitarfixer
Thought I'd put my 2 cents worth here. I've played clubs for years with a contact mic setup. Best I've found is the Barcus Berry Insider. It fits right under the bridge, is held in place by the taraf strings aft of its bridge and can be internally wired very easily. The amp situation - I have no problems with solid state. The tonal differences are there, oh yeah! The convenience and cool running of solid state swung it for me. Right now I'm running through a more recent Vox 100 watt hybrid modeling amp. Sound is more than sufficient, say 80% of a true tube amp sound. That's good enough for me. I've got a cab with two 12" drivers running parallel. That's 50 watts out. Also most adaquete. Speakers smaller than 12" never quite did it for me. Almost a brittle sound. What I found after terrorizing all the music shops is that bassier amps work better somehow. Keyboard amps seem to have the circuit to cover the range of kharaj open strings to the highest the 1st. string can get. Roland has a few of those worth looking into. The acoustic type amps do have a great sound, no doubt. They just don't seem to project as much as I would expect. That's what my ears are hearing anyway. Do lots of shopping and experimenting. Your ears will hear differently from anyone else.
http://www.karaseksound.com/
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AllenDS Senior Member 300 posts
AllenDS
Thanks for the replies. I could go on for days about live recording rigs: a most worthy topic, considering the diverse situations and venues where sitars can be played.

In the studio I totally understand the benefit of multiple condenser mics: the engineer has the flexibility to blend a sound that sits well in a mix. But in my budget home studio I've been using a single omnidirectional dynamic mic for years. The results aren't pro quality and I'm ready to invest in a better mic for the job. That's why I brought up the subject of the different diaphragm sizes.

I'm loving this discussion so far (BTW: those keyboard amps are designed to handle a broad frequency spectrum with lots of punch and are dead-on for for MIDI guitar also ). Now comes my decision about large, medium, or small diaphragm condenser microphones for the studio. I want to spend my money wisely but I'm undecided. :?

Thanks Again,
Allen
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sitarman 599 posts
sitarman
Hi Allen,
I work in music and pro sound retail and therefore have had much time to borrow mics, transducers etc. Large diaphragm condensers are usually the best sounding mics- peiod. 95% of the acoustic recordings we love whether pop, western, classical, or more current ICM etc. were recorded with them. It is true that some medium sized condensers are also very good- like the Rode NT3, AKG C1000, and small condensers- Shure SM81. To capture the widest range of sound from bass to treble frequencies the larger diaphragm mics are the way to go. BUT>>> only if you have a quiet, feedback-free envirinment, In eassence, a studio. For live you have to make compromises and choose a mic with a narrower pattern or it will pick up too much around it- hence, feedback. Large condensers do not have a narrow pattern- usually the opposite. If you want the best, most natural sounding recording use a large diaphragm. In the old days, these were all in the over-one thousand-dollar range, but now with imports such as Marshall Electronics, Rode, etc. it is much more affordable. For live I would suggest a medium condenser with as narrow a pattern as possible- the NT3 to my ears sounds great and is a little more gain before feedback than others I tried. In a small room playing through a sound system an excellent idea is a condenser and a transducer balanced so that a little more volume can be gained without sacrificing the mic sound. Having said all that, I notice very often, when watching videos of legendary sitarists like NB, that the PA sound is coming from a dynamic mic! I often see what looks like an SM58, believe it or not. I think it may just be because these house concerts or smaller venues didn't hsave elaborate budgets but we have gotten used to the sound on those classic recordings and they actually sound OK. However, as of late, if you watch DVD's from SP, they are being recorded by a large condenser going to the recorder but with a dynamic mic feeding the sound system. That's what it looks like to me. I emailed the engineer who did the Synergy CD by SP- it is a great, powerful and sparkling recording of both sitar and tabla and he mentioned, I believe, Neumann condensers and compression on the mastering. It is all personal taste, I realize, but always keep in mind that the best sounding mic in the world won't be of any use live if you can't turn it up loud enough for the audience without it squealing!
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festus 188 posts
festus
i just got back from playing 2 gigs in Canada, while there i found a contact pick-up that blows the roof of all the others i have. It's a McIntyre SBT-04 http://www.mcintyrepickups.com
...now i have nothing to do with this company other than just purchasing this product ... if you get a chance to try it, i would ...
they are out of Oak Island, N.C. ... best sound and volume by far for the money... and i've tried most all of them
OF COURSE this for live gigs - not studio work :wink:
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Stuti 88 posts
Stuti
Hey Festus, Thanks for sharing that info, What Model did you get and what was the price U.S. if you don't mind?
Blessings
Stuti
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luvdasitar 192 posts
luvdasitar
english anyone ?

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neela sangeeta 122 posts
neela sangeeta
My setup for playing with drums and other loud instruments (for me the mic does not cut it in a live situation):

Barcus Berry Outside placed just on the downside of the bridge.
L.R. Baggs Para Acoustic DI
and the new addition which I am really liking...
Roland AC-60 Acoustic chorus. This amp is very small and portable, but has a nice tone. In live situations I use it as a monitor for myself and take the line out into the PA.

Has anyone one used the Rode NT2A on sitar? I am currently debating between Rode NT1A or spending some more change and going for the 2A. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Neel
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rex 674 posts
rex
Hey Everyone,

A little update to this thread. My Rode NT 3 was finally pushed to its limit on Tuesday night. I was playing with this quirky pop/rock band on a small stage a little club. The only place for me to sit was right infront of the kick drum and next to the vocal monitor. Amazingly The sound engineer got quite a bit of volume without feedback Aparently the sound was great for the audience, but I could barely hear anything through the monitors, and we couldn't push any more without feedback. It was "just OK," but I would have loved a little more level to play with, and we just couldn't get it in that environment.

So, I'm going to have to get a transducer. For these kind of gigs, the missing tonal spectrum isn't a problem as, even with a mic it gets pretty trimmed down in the mix. I'm trying to try to source an AKG C411 here in Cape Town (based on Sitarman's advice) but the Barcus Berry and MacIntryre are not readily available, and I can't really wait the the month or so ordering them from the US would take. The one shop I contacted has lots of Fishman transducers in stock. Has had exerpience with Fishmans? (Sitarman??) Any advice would be welcome!

Anyway, Tuesday night was the first time I'd had a feedback problem with the NT3, and the situation was pretty extreme.. I know I've said it before, but I love this mic!! I'd never do a classical or acoustic rock gig with anything else.

Thanks guys!!

- Rex
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rex 674 posts
rex
Just an update from the previous post:

Last night, I played the same gig, with exactly the same setup as the week before - same venue, stage, etc. I couldn't source an AKG c411 locally and didn't want to risk the Fishman. So, I played with the NT3 again - No feedback problems and the sitar was LOUD. I was amazed.. I asked the sound engineer, and he said he just turned down the gain on the mic.

Problem solved

I would still love some feedback on Fishman's if anyone has any experience using them though. I'm going to source an the AKG c411 to keep in my back pocket for future too, just in case.

- Rex
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Aanaddha 1,932 posts
Aanaddha
rex@sitar.co.za wrote:
Just an update from the previous post:

Last night, I played the same gig, with exactly the same setup as the week before - same venue, stage, etc. I couldn't source an AKG c411 locally and didn't want to risk the Fishman. So, I played with the NT3 again - No feedback problems and the sitar was LOUD. I was amazed.. I asked the sound engineer, and he said he just turned down the gain on the mic.

Problem solved

- Rex
I still think your sound is going to be better with a good condenser like the NT3 over a dynamic, but it seems almost every gain freak who wants to EQ a condenser like it was a dynamic says no. :?
If he could sing, and nature to accompany him, what need would he have for an instrument?
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barend Senior Member 1,426 posts
barend
again in sitar mics:

Lately I am experimenting with different mics in a fusion band rehearsal. So far no good results and I was forced to play with my Barcus Berry pickup. The pickup sound is not really bad but not what I want. I want to have 60% mic and 40% pickup sound. or as much mic sound as possible. It is not loud music but we have jazzy/latin drums combined with acoustic instruments.

I have tried the following mics in rehearsals: Rode NT1000, Oktava MK 012, AKG C1000, these are all condensor mics. All these are great mics for recordings but not for a live fusion situation I think.
The feedback occured VERY fast. Even if I didn't play and everyone was quit. Also these mics picked up very little sitar sound even with the mic at a reasonably high volume (resulting again in feedback).

Someone told me to use the Shure Beta 57A for sitar? is this better then the SM57?
any suggestions what to do? because I don't know it anymore.
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Hamletsghost Senior Member 761 posts
Hamletsghost
Beta 57 a little more sparkling & tranparent than standard SM57 narrow pattern 58's a little wider pattern. Electrovoice ND767 is a good choice for a very tranparent mic with good feedback rejection & settings to contour the lo end. I've said it elsewhere & I will always stand by Sennheiser MD421 as one of the finest dynamic cardiod mics you can find. I've used this for my partner/teacher Patric Marks' sitars for 27 years to perfection. I've used it at fusion concerts - bansuri - bhajans etc etc etc. I used it for Lalgudi Jayram & his family's violins as well as many other mandolin & sitar recitals. I even used 2 of them for a harp recital years ago with amazing results (full sized harp) I would feel confident shoving this at any acoustic instrument. It imparts a warm & rich sound that is unparralelled. Condensers like the Rode are fantastic with incredible gain & sound for the studio, but just a little too hot & open a pattern on stage especially for fusion. If you use a top gourd I have recommended many times using a directional like the 57's behind the player shooting right past your ear into the top gourd. Rent or borrow one of these Sennheiser beauties, to try. My 30 year old one still sounds as good as the day it came to my hot little hands.
http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/icm_eng.nsf/root/00984

Hamletsghost 8)

AND YES I would rather have the luxury of turning the gain down like the above referenced tech with the condenser - BUT I've never had to overdrive the Sennheiser either (I'm definately NOT a gain freak - I use a judiscious amount of compression and very little gain on any fequency at the eq - my philosophy is I would rather remove bad sounds than leave them & try to overcompensate with the good - a sure recipe for disaster)
The Sennheiser is plenty hot enough and really is the best choice as an alternative to a condenser if they just don't work for you. b

Side Note: I do use condensers for choir mics - large ensembles - etc
PEACE THRU MUSIC - Larry Darrell LIVES!
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rex 674 posts
rex
Thanks HG!

That sounds like a good compromise. I will definitely put the MD421 on my wish list. If it can replace a transducer for those difficult live shows, great!

- Rex
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Agape 130 posts
Agape
I know I am going to catch a LOT of flack for this one - but use the Bose Tower L2's or my BOSE 802-w Series II (old PA's - both with a Subwoofer or Two) They obviously work because there is an interview on my website (after the Auburn University show) of an audience member in which they commented on my "use of technology" to create sound. Although this may have something to with ICM (ICM fusion?) shows having notoriously bad sound - maybe. Anyway my two cents. BOSE sounds amazing for this type music. Their Articulated Array system creates such the "sound chamber" - almost like a Gourd - especially on those old speakers. Beautiful
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Hamletsghost Senior Member 761 posts
Hamletsghost
AGAPE - WHY IN THE WORLD DO YOU THINK YOU'D CATCH FLAK FOR CHOOSING BOSE :?:

Bose has been an industry standard in exquisite sound reproduction for years. Dr Bose a great Indian physicist while teaching at MIT hated the state of sound reproduction and came up with the basic theories of the Bose sound and construction. (Think he might know a little something about Indian Classical Music :?: ) I have owned 802's for years it is part of my arsenal. Granted My main system is loaded with JBL's but my trusty Bose' have never let me down for the shows I use them for. At our Indian Cultural Center we use 4 Bose 802 ser III in a surround setup to cover our hall. We do any kind of show with these. Only in the case of Garba, Fusion, or larger ensembles do we need to break out the subs. I find Bose a PERFECT fit for warm rich woody sound, ideally suited for ICM. My friend Gaurav Mazumdar just played in San Diego utilizing a Bose MA12 permanent instal array and proclaimed it the best sound system he ever worked with. I have seen concerts using large 802 arrays with the old acoustamas sub tubes as far back as the old Chicagofest days with bands like Cheap Trick - Gato Barbierri - & Stanley Clarke. ( there's a couple of fusion bands for you )
NEVER be ashamed of using Bose - or older designs (VINTAGE is a much better word) I have gear going back better than 35 years that still sounds just great. New don't always mean better.

Hamletsghost 8)
PEACE THRU MUSIC - Larry Darrell LIVES!
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