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katyrow

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Reply with quote  #1 
There's a RKS on Craig's List to which someone has glued a Sanjay Rikhi Ram badge and added an eBay plastic-ridged ebony jawari. Just a heads up. Thx.

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mizrable

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Reply with quote  #2 
can u post the url?
how much are they asking?
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katyrow

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Reply with quote  #3 
$2500. I emailed the seller, who was very nice in his response and had no idea about the problem. He is looking into it.
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StVitus

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Reply with quote  #4 
Saw the photo of the RKS emboss and nearly spit out my tea laughing.
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desh

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Reply with quote  #5 
Years ago I was in the RR shop in Connaught Place (while the father Bishan Das was still alive and before Sanjay had gone on his own) and a fellow (I think from Sweden) brought in his sitar with a Rikhi Ram label on it for a repair. Bishan Das asked him something to the effect "why does it have our label; it isn't one of ours? ". The fellow replied that several years prior he had bought the sitar elsewhere and taken it to them to fix it up prior to leaving India and they had put the RR label on it as part of the repair . Bishan Das seemed satisfied with that response and carried on business as usual.
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #6 
There are a ton of sitars floating about with bogus badges on them.
It is sad really, especially when it is so obviously fake like this one.
There is a cottage industry of rounding up old crap and slapping a badge from a respectable maker on to sell to people who don't know the difference.
Most of the time they don't even attempt to make a badge that looks like one the maker would actually use.
They just make a shiny new badge with generic font, slap it on a random sitar that looks like it might be old, and sell it on at a significant markup.

I just feel bad for the people who buy them thinking they are getting a respectable sitar, but are getting nothing of the sort.
This seller probably has no idea what they have or they would not have shown the RKS stamp at the end of the neck. If they are asking RR prices, then they have to be told so they don't rip someone off. Might not be a terrible sitar but it certainly isn't worth anywhere near what they are asking.

Fraud exists all over.
There are a lot of fake Gibson Les Paul guitars floating about.
There are Youtube videos dedicated to identifying the fakes from the real ones.

It is frustrating.
You can't blame an ignorant purchaser of one of these, but the ones who rebadge them are doing a great disservice to the sitar world.
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CarbonSitars

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "cwroyds"
There are a ton of sitars floating about with bogus badges on them.
It is sad really, especially when it is so obviously fake like this one.
There is a cottage industry of rounding up old crap and slapping a badge from a respectable maker on to sell to people who don't know the difference.
Most of the time they don't even attempt to make a badge that looks like one the maker would actually use.
They just make a shiny new badge with generic font, slap it on a random sitar that looks like it might be old, and sell it on at a significant markup.

I just feel bad for the people who buy them thinking they are getting a respectable sitar, but are getting nothing of the sort.
This seller probably has no idea what they have or they would not have shown the RKS stamp at the end of the neck.
If they are asking RR prices, then they have to be told so they don't rip someone off.

Fraud exists all over.
There are a lot of fake Gibson Les Paul guitars floating about.
There are Youtube videos dedicated to identifying the fakes from the real ones.

It is frustrating and dishonorable...actually it is fraud in my book.
You can't blame an ignorant purchaser of one of these, but the ones who rebadge them are doing a great disservice to the sitar world.
To me they are liars and thieves.
For quite some time, the market for all things vintage has skyrocketed, often based on the perception that things were better made in the olden days. Perhaps they were, or maybe only the good specimens survived. I won't speculate. It doesn't come as much of a surprise to me that a bottomless supply would emerge for such a demand. It's simple business, and always caveat emptor.

There are a few people around who are really good with identifying vintage instruments. Offering an authentication service could really be a benefit to players who want the real thing. I would pay extra just for such a certificate.
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #8 
Most of the top makers are pretty easy to identify from style, carving, etc.
Hiren Roy, Kanai Lal & Bros, and RR are the only good makers most people know, so those tend to be the ones faked.
Most of the fakes are super obvious if you have looked at a lot of different sitars from these makers.
Tony K is probably super bored from being asked to identify the maker of various dubious sitars.
Now that the great makers are almost all gone, it will only get worse, as sitarists always want one of the good ones from a great maker.
It is sad really.

I am just happy that I found my Hiren Roy.
It is obviously a real Hiren Roy.
It is all I will ever need, and it is a beauty.
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Sitarfixer

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Reply with quote  #9 
Not super bored. I like to look at all sitar porn ! ! ! It does sadden me though. Good in the sense that a lot of actually very beautiful sitars are being unearthed and brought back to life but these instruments, lovely in their own right, are slapped in the face along with their prospective buyers by being branded with a bogus Hiren Roy or comparable badge.
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gillo

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "desh"
Years ago I was in the RR shop in Connaught Place (while the father Bishan Das was still alive and before Sanjay had gone on his own) and a fellow (I think from Sweden) brought in his sitar with a Rikhi Ram label on it for a repair. Bishan Das asked him something to the effect "why does it have our label; it isn't one of ours? ". The fellow replied that several years prior he had bought the sitar elsewhere and taken it to them to fix it up prior to leaving India and they had put the RR label on it as part of the repair . Bishan Das seemed satisfied with that response and carried on business as usual.
This is fascinating. Sounds like RR themselves put the label on after doing a major refit or significant repairs. It's pretty common knowledge that the RR brands do source bodies elsewhere to fit them out properly and sell under their name. Perhaps they did so much work on the body that they considered it theirs. This case shows that it's not always fraudsters simply slapping a badge on a dodgy body for more $. But still dodgy!
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katyrow

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "gillo"
Sounds like RR themselves put the label on after doing a major refit or significant repairs.
Extraordinarily unlikely, and there is no reason to think that this is what happened. This is a newer RKS. Someone put the badge on it to pass it off as a Rikhi Ram. I'm not even sure that the badge is real. When I emailed the seller, he said that he had paid $2000 for it!
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gillo

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "katyrow"
Quote:
Originally Posted by "gillo"
Sounds like RR themselves put the label on after doing a major refit or significant repairs.
Extraordinarily unlikely, and there is no reason to think that this is what happened. This is a newer RKS. Someone put the badge on it to pass it off as a Rikhi Ram. I'm not even sure that the badge is real. When I emailed the seller, he said that he had paid $2000 for it!
Sorry but I was talking about the sitar in Desh's story not the one you originally posted about. What Desh recounts is very interesting and shows practices that might occur from time to time with some makers.
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "katyrow"
When I emailed the seller, he said that he had paid $2000 for it!


Ouch, if that is true the seller got absolutely screwed.
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Lars

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "cwroyds"
Quote:
Originally Posted by "katyrow"
When I emailed the seller, he said that he had paid $2000 for it!
Ouch, if that is true the seller got absolutely screwed.
Absolutely, and trying to pass it along rather than be stuck with it. I know Sanjay well, he'd never do or allow this and none of the good makers I've known would be cool with it. Unless maybe in a few cases there was a $1000 bill to go with it perhaps but doubtful. Also the label is glued and poorly printed, just another feeble attempt at fake older sitars which seem to be flooding the market. Fortunately they're easy to identify, especially in this case.

Lars

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