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ragamala

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Reply with quote  #16 
Thanks for the tip,
Alan
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Stephen David

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Sreeni
•         22 divided by 7 (another sacred number) makes the mysterious ratio of ‘pi’ that relates the diameter of a circle with its perimeter.
22/7 = 3.142857
pi = 3.141592

So no one would consider them the same to any significant degree of accuracy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Sreeni
•         Christians believe that the sum total of God’s creations amount to 22. i.e. ‘22’ implied abundance that approached ‘infinity’.
"Christians believe..." is an incredibly broad statement. Who told you this? Your next door neighbor who claims to be a Christian and goes to church on holidays, never having cracked open a Bible?

I would have no problems if you stated something like "Dr. Fuzzlebrain, Phd Theology, etc states that 'The number 22 is historically important because of... ."

I also wouldn't have any problem if it were your own theory, and you presented examples of supposed significance to Christian Theology or Symbolism. But you dont do that here.

To state categorically that "Christians believe..." is putting yourself WAY out on a limb.

I've attended churches of many denominations throughout my life, and hold an MA in Christian Theology. I don't claim to know everything about Christianity, but I have thoroughly studied the Bible and Church History and can say with confidence that I have never come across any mention of the significance of the number "22" before.

By and large, Christians don't delve into numerology as you have done here. A few numbers, such as "3" (for the Trinity) and "12" (for the original Disciples) are important. But, as I have said, I've never heard mention of any significance to the number "22".
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Stephen David

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Sreeni
•         22 divided by 7 (another sacred number) makes the mysterious ratio of ‘pi’ that relates the diameter of a circle with its perimeter.
22/7 = 3.142857
pi = 3.141592

So no one would consider them the same to any significant degree of accuracy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Sreeni
•         Christians believe that the sum total of God’s creations amount to 22. i.e. ‘22’ implied abundance that approached ‘infinity’.
"Christians believe..." is an incredibly broad statement. Who told you this? Your next door neighbor who claims to be a Christian and goes to church on holidays, never having cracked open a Bible?

I would have no problems if you stated something like "Dr. Fuzzlebrain, Phd Theology, etc states that 'The number 22 is historically important because of... ."

I also wouldn't have any problem if it were your own theory, and you presented examples of supposed significance to Christian Theology or Symbolism. But you dont do that here.

To state categorically that "Christians believe..." is putting yourself WAY out on a limb.

I've attended churches of many denominations throughout my life, and hold an MA in Christian Theology. I don't claim to know everything about Christianity, but I have thoroughly studied the Bible and Church History and can say with confidence that I have never come across any mention of the significance of the number "22" before.

By and large, Christians don't delve into numerology as you have done here. A few numbers, such as "3" (for the Trinity) and "12" (for the original Disciples) are important. But, as I have said, I've never heard mention of any significance to the number "22".
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Stephen David

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Reply with quote  #19 
sorry for the double post. not sure what happened


Stephen
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nigama

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Reply with quote  #20 
Hi,
Although I am on my doorstep away from home and this does not concern me, pls let me leave my 2 cents here:
Pope Gregory, the Great was very fond of greek music, we know and Pope Sylvester Ist knew mathematics well and was conversed with these numbers. In later times they were decried as heresy and banned, right or wrong, who can say? The Bible is full of mathematics related to acoustics, 22 as 3,7,12 played a prominent part of it. While the Old Testament adhered to 22 the New Testament translated the number sometimes as 24 or left 22. St. John in the Apocalypse used the Hebrew 22 for the number of chapters of the book but as 24 for the elders sitting around the throne of the lamb in the New Jerusalem. This seems very significant, since the hebrew number of letters of 22 was equated to the greek 24, which would be 12 ascending and 12 descending fifths of the octave circle, a measure common to the greek Pythagoreans. St. John carefully translated 22 not in 27 letters of greek but into 24. In this sense 24 became a number for the Pleroma, that is the Cosmos, the All. St. John translated the 22 nd and 1st hebrew letter Toth Aleph into the greek term Alpha and Omega, google please to see the many explanations for this term.
In indian christianity this bible knowledge seems still preserved like here in the subtitle as Psalm 33.3:
„Amid loud shouts of joy, sing to Him a new song and play the ten stringed harp.“
http://www.kishogeo.com/
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ragamala

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "nigama"
Hi,
Although I am on my doorstep away from home and this does not concern me, pls let me leave my 2 cents here:
Pope Gregory, the Great was very fond of greek music, we know and Pope Sylvester Ist knew mathematics well and was conversed with these numbers. In later times they were decried as heresy and banned, right or wrong, who can say? The Bible is full of mathematics related to acoustics, 22 as 3,7,12 played a prominent part of it. While the Old Testament adhered to 22 the New Testament translated the number sometimes as 24 or left 22. St. John in the Apocalypse used the Hebrew 22 for the number of chapters of the book but as 24 for the elders sitting around the throne of the lamb in the New Jerusalem. This seems very significant, since the hebrew number of letters of 22 was equated to the greek 24, which would be 12 ascending and 12 descending fifths of the octave circle, a measure common to the greek Pythagoreans. St. John carefully translated 22 not in 27 letters of greek but into 24. In this sense 24 became a number for the Pleroma, that is the Cosmos, the All. St. John translated the 22 nd and 1st hebrew letter Toth Aleph into the greek term Alpha and Omega, google please to see the many explanations for this term.
In indian christianity this bible knowledge seems still preserved like here in the subtitle as Psalm 33.3:
„Amid loud shouts of joy, sing to Him a new song and play the ten stringed harp.“
http://www.kishogeo.com/
I'm afraid, having said previously that I have had no basic quarrel with your own posts, that I feel now you are venturing into the realm of fantasy.

There is no way that any division of the chapters of the books of the New Testament particularly was as the writers intended, as you erroneously state, it took another thousand years before any standard of allocation of chapter/verse occurred.

Similarly, I doubt whether any of your other statements have basis in fact, or what their relevance is.

If you can justify any of them as facts, please quote authoritative sources. If you can relate them to any significant issue we should take note of, please explain.

Frankly I don't even understand half your post. 22 = 24 = 27? Whatever..... And please don't tell us again just to Google if you can't answer a question yourself.
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nigama

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Reply with quote  #22 
Hey, do not ask me to do your homework, this is not fair! When I come back we might discuss further,
pls try a piece like this
Ancient Harmonics and the Book of Jonah by Ernest McClain with Duane L. Christensen
http://www.ernestmcclain.net/Addendum-Jonah.pdf
by a well known musicologist and let me know if you can cope with it? This is only one tiny aspect of the whole field.
Quote:
McClain credits colleagues Ernst Levy and Siegmund Levarie and their writings for introducing him to Pythagoreanism via the insights of 19th century theorist Albert von Thimus, who provided the keys to unlocking Plato's mathematical riddles. His three books were published during a decade of further collaboration with Antonio de Nicolas, that opened a window into other ancient philosophical and religious writings.
regards
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ragamala

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "nigama"
Hey, do not ask me to do your homework, this is not fair!
We are coming at this from total opposite viewpoints. You seem to regard this sort of source, and the source references, as valid. I disregard it all as as fantasy. Interesting, only in that people can devote so much energy to construct such edifices of fancy, but at the end of the day total nonsense.
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Stephen David

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "ragamala"
If you can justify any of them as facts, please quote authoritative sources. If you can relate them to any significant issue we should take note of, please explain
Absolutely! My point as well.

Keep in mind, that you can randomly choose any number you want to, and then search for references to that number throughout history. Just by chance, you can find any number of associations with that number.

Do those associations mean the number has any significance to anyone? More imporantly, does that mean the number has significance to a specific group of people? E.g. "Christians"

This is one reason why most Christians don't get very involved in numerology. It may or may not have significance or importance to other religions/philosophies. ( and I am not going to try to debate that!) But when you say "Christians believe..." what should follow is some belief that all or most Christians share in common.

Again, if you had said "Some Christians in India believe this...' I would not have replied, since it may or may not be true about one specific group of Christians.
However, the Indian Christians I have met (quite a few from Karala, actually) have never mentioned any significance to the number, or to numerology in general. I will admit thats an "argument from silence", since I never asked them about it. But it just plain never came up. Indian Christians I have talked to have never strayed from discussing common Christian themes.

And keep in mind, the original post about this said that in Christian belief, the number 22 was associated with "eternity". In the "shotgun approach" you took of throwing a large number of highly questionable associations, not one had anything to do with 22 symbolizing eternity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by "nigama"
Hey, do not ask me to do your homework
If you are going to make such broad statements, you need to be prepared to support them. The onus is on you to do the homework, not those who challenge you.
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nigama

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Reply with quote  #25 
Ragamala wrote:

We are coming at this from total opposite viewpoints. You seem to regard this sort of source, and the source references, as valid. I disregard it all as as fantasy.


Absolutely correct, nothing to add to this topic within a topic. :roll:
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