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Christianamr

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Christianamr"
You have brought up a very tricky issue here , because Hem seems to point to two different ragas , namely " Hem Kalyan " and Hemant .

I am not really conversant with the ragas that have the " Hem " part in them , I just listened shortly to some soundclips of the most prominent ragas on the Parrikar site . But Hem Lalit is unknown to me .

Now Hemant is more familiar to me since I know it to be related to Bhinna Shadja . I think it has one or two more tones than Bhinna Shajda , but sounds quite similar . ( ragas that evoque autumn ~~ )

Returning to Hem , Parrikar says it is an abbreviation for Hem Kalyan :

http://www.parrikar.org/hindustani/hemkhem/

" Raga Hem Kalyan

There is no explicit Kalyan-anga in this raga and hence some purists refer to it as just Hem. The raga employs all shuddha swaras. The nishad is very weak (alpa), the rishab and dhaivat are rendered alpa in arohi movements. Hem Kalyan’s signature is embedded in a characteristic tonal sentence in the mandra saptak given by: S, P’ D’ P’ S. Most of the tonal activity occurs in the mandra and in the poorvanga of the madhya saptak. A supporting cluster – G M P G M R S – reminiscent of Kamod is encountered; so is the P–S–P coupling. The declining S–P‘ or S”–P swoop is through a meend. The dhatu of Hem Kalyan is encapsulated in the following three sentences:

S, P’ D’ P’ S, S R S G M R S P’ D’ P’ S

S M G P, P G M R S, G M D, P, P D P S”

S” P D P, P S” D P, G M D, P, P G M P G M R S, P’ D’ P’ S "


Now for " Hem Bihag " , Parrikar writes :

" Raga Hem Bihag

This is a creation of Allauddin Khan of Maihar. The choice of label is misleading: the raga is a hybrid formed with strands of Hemant woven into the Bihag fabric and laced with special sancharis. The “Hem” here presumably derives from Hemant, certainly not from the well-known Raga Hem/Hem Kalyan. Jha-sahab has documented a different Hem Bihag – one fashioned from Hem and Bihag. "

~~~ Ok , here we see the ambiguity on one spot , for a single raga ... :roll:

I couldn´t resist , and checked the few Hem-component ragas ( about 6 ) in Oceanofragas , and the description always says that Hem points to Hem Kalyan , but at least for Hem Bihag , the info is false , if one follows Parrikar .
Ocean also says that Hem-Lalit comes from Hem , but I have just read one explanation that corresponds to your version of linking it to Hemant , so it seems Ocean is also faulty in this aspect .

I like the Oceanofragas-site a lot , but there is some faulty info there , that´s why I plan to create a topic about it , since I see that many people get their infos from there . ~~~~ Oceanofragas - suggestions for corrections

Being realistic , to discern if Hem in a given raga points either to Hem or Hemant , would take probably some years for my ears to discern , since they are not major ragas , and either way , I very rarely listen to them ; so no hurry for me , but I like to have at least the theory and the nomenclature clarified .

I am going to include the " Hem " denomination in the topic for ambiguous raga nomenclature , otherwise I will probably assume a false connotation for it , when I accidentally stumble upon these component ragas in a few months , after having forgotten these last few clarifying posts .
Strictly speaking , Hem doesn´t relly belong to this topic ( even though I brought it up in the first post ) , since we have now found out that it refers either to Hemant or to Hem Kalyan .
So it is not that Hem would represent an older raag that is not anymore in vogue and only comes up in hybrids , as indicated by the topic´s title .

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Christianamr

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "AsianGirl"
Glad to know Christianamr that you are mentioning some rare Raags...
Mind you a few days back i found this awesome Youtube Channel-which has rare collections of some rare Raags...below are a few:

4. Gauri Chaiti:
...

And many more!
Yes , you are right , this looks like a nice channel , and the clips you have posted are very melodious .
These songs seem to consist mostly of Sikh Sangeet/Shabad .
This specific one " Mann Raam Naam, Raag Gauree Chaithee, Karathaar Singh Ji, Shabadh " I quoted above , is specially soothing for me since it features lots of " Raam Naam " .

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singhmanbir

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Reply with quote  #18 
Another form of Raag Gauri .... Gauri Deepki ...

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Christianamr

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "singhmanbir"
Another form of Raag Gauri .... Gauri Deepki ...

Interesting form of Gauri . It sounds like forming part of Marva thaat .

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Christianamr

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "ZauyaHayaath"
Yes Christianamr-the Raag Gauree Dheepakee falls in to the Maarva Tthaatth...here are two Shabadhs being sung(Indian classically) in the Raag Gauree Dheepakee:

Shabadh:
...
Shabadh:
...

By the way Christianamr and Manbironline the Raag Gauree Dheepakee is not a form of the Raag Gauree(in general)...both the Raags(the Raag Gauree(in general) and the Raag Gauree Dheepakee) are two distinct Raags in their own right and structure...yes the Raag Gauree Dheepakee is formed by joining the Raag(Raageenee technically) Gauree of the Pooravee Tthaatth with the Raag(Raageenee technically) Dheepakee(she is the Raageene of the Raag Dheepak(in general))...thus, she falls in to the Maarva Tthaatth...

Enjoy xxx
Thanks ZauyaHayaath for your explanations !
Both ragas Gauri Deepki and Deepki seem to be quite rare by normal hindustani standards ( khyal , dhrupad , bhajan etc ... ) . They appear to be a speciality of Sikh sangeet , if I am not mistaken .

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Christianamr

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "AsianGirl"
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Christianamr"

Speaking about Raag Gauri , most of the time I see myself trying to sort out what separates it from Bhairav or Kalingada ; but when it sometimes has shades of Raag Shri , it is more easy to recognize . But in general , I find it to be quite difficult .
Gauri of Bhairv thaath:

Gauree of Marwa thaath:


cant find Gauri of Purvi thaath
AsianGirl , the clip featuring Gauri of Bhairav thaat sounds very nice .
However the one with Gauree of Marwa thaat doesn

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Christianamr

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Reply with quote  #22 
That
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Christianamr

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Reply with quote  #23 
The RARE RAGA Ahiri has already been mentioned in the introductory post .

Here is a lenghty discussion about it provided by Deepak Raja´s blogspot :

http://swaratala.blogspot.co.at/2008/12/raga-ahiri-neither-ahiri-todi-nor-ahir.html
Quote:
Raga Ahiri: Neither Ahiri Todi, nor Ahir Bhairav – just Ahiri

Until a few years ago, I had not heard Raga Ahiri. The opportunity of studying it came my way when I had to write a commentary on the sarodist, Tejendra Majumdar’s recording of this raga for India Archive Music Ltd., New York.

Tejendra claims to have learnt this raga from his Guru, Ustad Bahadur Khan, as Ahiri, and not Ahiri Todi. In addition, he studied, from a private collection, an unpublished recording of the raga rendered by Nikhil Bannerjee. Tejendra vouches that the raga form, as taught to him by his Guru matches that of Nikhil Bannerjee. On this evidence, I am inclined to believe that Ahiri is a rare raga, which has been a part of the repertoire of the Maihar-Seniya repertoire.

The word "Ahir" refers to a community of cowherds in northern and western India. This suggests the origin of this raga in a tribal or folk melody, which entered the raga system by shaping variants of mature, major ragas. This possibility is suggested by the popularity of its compounds (e.g. Ahir Bhairav, Ahiri Todi, Ahir Lalit) and the rarity of the pure Ahiri.

Such situations are encountered when the pure form of a raga is either too similar to established ragas to sustain its independent raga-ness, or too limited in melodic potential to permit a sufficiently satisfying presentation. Isolating the pure form of ragas like Ahiri from their compounds -- conceptually as well as in practice -- is therefore a challenging task. Consequently, we encounter a variety of interpretations of such ragas in rendition, along with a scarcity of documentation, and lack of consistency in nomenclature and grammar.

In such situations, a residual derivation is occasionally possible with one of two approaches:
1. Ahiri = (Ahir Bhairav - Bhairav) or (Ahiri Todi - Todi)
2. Ahiri = {(Ahir Bhairav + Ahiri Todi) - Bhairav - Todi}

Considering that Ahiri appears, over the years, to have so totally submerged its identity into its compounds, neither of these derivations is particularly helpful. Tejendra Majumdar's Ahiri, therefore, requires us to accept it on its own terms, to be interpreted in relation to the most familiar reference points available.

Swara-samudaya (tone material):
Ahiri (Tejendra's interpretation): S r g M P D n

This interpretation combines the Bhairavi scale of Hindustani music in the purvanga (lower tetrachord), with the Kafi scale in the uttaranga (upper tetrachord). Apparent dominants: Komal Re and shuddha Ma. Their relative weightage is not possible to determine.

Subba Rao's documentation: (Subba Rao V. Raga Nidhi, Vol.I and IV. Fourth Impression, 1996, Music Academy, Madras)

Ahiri: S r G M P D n (Dominants: Primary: Sa. Secondarya)
Ahir Bhairav: S r G M P D n (Dominants: Primary: Ma. Secondary:Sa)
Ahiri Todi: S r g M P d n N (Dominants: Primary: dh. Secondary:ga)
Ahir- Lalit: S r G M M^ D n (Dominants: Primary: Ma. Secondary:Sa)

On the dimensions of swara-samudaya and dominant swaras, Majumdar's Ahiri does not correspond to any of these raga parameters. It does, however, correspond to the swara-samudaya of Ahiri Todi, as documented by Manikbuwa Thakurdas, a scholar-musician of the Gwalior Gharana (Raga Darshan: Vol. III, First edition. Shri Lakshminarayan Trust, Rajpipla). The Thakurdas description of Ahiri Todi also approximates Tejendra's rendition in terms of aural images. According to Thakurdas, the purvanga of Ahiri Todi suggests raga Bilaskhani Todi, while the uttaranga corresponds to raga Ahiri.

Beyond this, the Thakurdas commentary becomes unserviceable. It states that Ahiri Todi and Ahir Bhairav are the same raga, and a documentation of the pure Ahiri is not available, though the raga finds mention in respected musicological texts. Moreover, Thakurdas considers Pa and Sa as the primary and secondary dominants, respectively, of Ahiri Todi. This conflicts with Subbarao's parameters for Ahiri, Ahir Bhairav and Ahiri Todi, as also with Tejendra's rendition of Ahiri.

These references, considered along with Tejendra's rendition, suggest two melodic tendencies of the pure Ahiri. With identical swara-samudaya for Ahiri and Ahir Bhairav, and using the shuddha (natural) Ga, Subba Rao apparently considers the pure Ahiri close to Bhairav. Tejendra's interpretation, on the other hand, uses the komal (flat) Ga, and suggests a proximity to the Todi group of ragas. Available evidence is insufficient to ascertain whether Ahiri and Ahiri Todi might have, at some stage or in some gharanas, been different names for the same raga.

Tejendra's own contribution to the interpretation of this raga seems considerable. The melodic personality of the raga has an impressionistic modernity which is inconceivable as having derived from either Ustad Bahadur Khan or Pt. Nikhil Bannerjee. This modernity is reflected mainly in the use of kaleidoscopic tonal patterns, which are compatible with the tone material of the raga, but lack well-defined melodic contours. This is, essentially, a post-Ali Akbar feature in sarod music, and assists greatly in projecting a persuasive holograph of a rare raga, whose distinctive melodic identity is difficult to sustain.

In simplistic terms, Tejendra's Ahiri is vaguely suggestive of Bilaskhani Todi/ Bhairavi in the purvanga and Bageshri in the uttaranga. The Bageshri flavor is also found in the uttaranga of Ahir Bhairav, and may therefore be assumed to belong to Ahiri. As performed by Tejendra, Ahiri exhibits a family resemblance with Ahir Bhairav and Ahiri Todi. Because of the raga's purvanga-dominant character, the Todi bias might prevail.

Chalan (Skeletal phraseology)
n.D.r/D.n.S /D.n.g r /r g M g r /S r g M /r g P M /g r g P /r g M D /D P D n D /M D S' (or) M P D n S' (or) M D n S' /D n r' S' /n D P D n D /n D M g r /P M g r /r n. D. S

In the phraseology, the dominant melodic foci are komal (flat) Re, shuddha (natural) Ma and shuddha (natural) Dh. In the alap. Tejendra appears to treat the komal Re as the pivotal swara. The two compositions he performs have their primary emphasis on the shuddha Ma, defining this swara as the second dominant. The importance of Ma probably belongs to the original Ahiri, considering that it is inconsistent with the character of Bhairav but is frequently encountered in renditions of Ahir Bhairav by scholarly musicians. This emphasis on Ma is important also because it weakens the adjacent komal Ga and komal Re, both pregnant with a bias towards the Todi group. In the ambient acoustic, Tejendra emphasizes Ma and Dh swaras, thus reinforcing the Bageshri chord, presumably supportive of the aural image of Ahiri.

Ahiri is prescribed for mid-morning performance. Consistent with its Todi/Bhairav affinity and purvanga bias, the dominant mood of this raga is somber. Despite the mildly euphoric potential of the shuddha (natural) Ma as a melodic focus, Tejendra's interpretation appears to veer towards pathos.

Tejendra's Ahiri is a complex raga to handle. Establishing Ahiri as distinct from the familiar Ahir Bhairav and Ahiri Todi, while retaining a family resemblance to them, is a task demanding formidable musicianship.
I copied the as a whole , but normally I like to shorten such items by leaving just the essential parts .
But this text is so relevant to the topic at large , that it is more practical to have it in full lenght there . Most interesting is the commitement to reconstruct old ragas that have been lost on the highways of bygone decades and centuries

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Christianamr

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Reply with quote  #24 
Raga Chhaya

This raga is mostly heard indirectly as part of Chhayanat .

Parrikar :
Quote:
Raga Chhayanat

Few ragas in the Hindustani community measure up to Chhayanat in popularity. The union of its two constituents – Chhaya and Nat – is so natural as to leave virtually no trace of any suture. Chhaya, like Nat, rarely strikes out on its own. There is some overlap with Nat, and although differences of opinion prevail on the details, there’s a meeting of minds that the meend-laden swoop P–>R is Chhaya’s signpost. The curvature of this P–>R trajectory is subject to variation. It must be underscored that the uccharana here is distinct from the Kalyanic uccharana P-R. A few other features distinguish Chhaya from Nat, such as the de-emphasis of madhyam and rishab, and the injection of shades of Bilawal and Bihag

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Christianamr

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Reply with quote  #25 
Raga Alhaiya

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alhaiya_raga,_Ragamala,_c1720.jpg
Quote:
Alhaiya Vilaval, son of Bhairava raga, Ragamala, c1720. (digitally enhanced using Picasa) Watercolour on paper. Mankot, India.
That

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Sahasranāma tat tulyam Rāma nāma Varānane .
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