INDIAN MUSIC FORUMS

Sign up Calendar Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
nicneufeld

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,564
Reply with quote  #1 
Greetings, first off! This being my first post, a small bit of introduction may be in order...I'm a guitarist and bassist who has for the past 10 years had a very strong attraction to Indian classical music, first drawn in like probably so many by Pt. Ravi Shankar. Only recently have I finally "gotten serious" about it and started to invest time in learning the fundamentals (this site is a great reference along these lines!), and I attended a workshop given by Sandip Burman, a great tabla and sitar player who is a great teacher as well. At this point, I'm hooked, and shortly planning to get a sitar so my funky-tuned acoustic guitar can be retired, or at least returned to a more western tuning!

But on to my specific question...probably my favorite album of ICM (even if it is a bit on the non-traditional side) is West Meets East with Shankar and Yehudi Menuhin. Raga Piloo from that is a song I've never been able to shake out of my head. But I was listening to Raga Ananda Bhairava from that album, and I'm quite confused!

First of all, there are two thaats similarly named (Bhairav and Bhairavi) and then there is a Carnatic raga (Anandabhairavi) that is similar. The Carnatic raga seems to correspond to the Asavari thaat (being a false cognate to the Bhairav or Bhairavi thaats).

But when I'm listening to this recording, it sounds almost completely like it is in the bilawal thaat! The tanpura is tuned G P S' S, it appears. And all of the notes really appear "shuddha". Asavari and Bhairavi don't seem to fit because the flattened Ga doesn't really appear at all, leaving Bhairav, which has a flattened Dha, but the shuddha Dha seems actually quite emphasised in Shankar's version. The one difference is an occasional straying to a kemal Re. So is there a thaat for SrGmPDNS'?

I realize putting ancient art into simple distillations of rules and formulas is going to be fraught with this sort of inconsistency, just wondering if I'm overlooking something, or if its just that ragas are so complex that these sort of exceptions are normal.

Cheers!
0
jaan e kharabat

Registered:
Posts: 1,401
Reply with quote  #2 
First of all let me say thank you for the introduction and welcome to the forum!

Let me also state at the outset that I've haven't heard the recording of Ananda Bhairava in question. To answer your question regarding thaats, no there is no such thaat in Hindustani music. From what I know of Anand Bhairav, the scale is as you say with the occasional usage of Komal Ni as well.

Raga taxonomy in Hindustani music goes along two separate methods. One is thaats, that is the basic scale material; the second is raganga, that is basic melodic behaviour. Now it is possible that ragas of two disparate thaats can share the same raganga whilst ragas of the same thaat can have different ragangas.

Bhairav is not only the name of a raga and a thaat but also that of a raganga, Bhairav-ang. Anand Bhairav is a Bhairav-ang raga; Bhairav is the parent Bhairav-ang raga. Other ragas with this raganga include: Ahir Bhairav (again, this raga doesn't fit neatly into any of the ten thaats), Gunakali, Ramkali, and others.

__________________
If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
0
RichardH

Registered:
Posts: 113
Reply with quote  #3 
No, you're not crazy. The raga in question played by Ravi Shankar has nothing to do with Bhairavi rag or that, nor Karnatic Anandabhairavi and very little to do with Bhairav that.

There are two versions of Ananda Bhairav in use today:

One uses all the notes of the major scale, but with a flat second:

1 b2 3 4 5 6 7 1' 1' 7 6 5 4 3 b2 1

S r G m P D N S' S' N D P m G r S

This version is favoured by Amjad Ali Khan, Buddaditya Mukherjee, Parveen Sultana, among others.

A quick Google search turns up several samples of this version. To my ear, this one sounds a bit much like Bhaityar:

http://www.raaga.com/player4/?id=126617&mode=100&rand=0.6003292784533358

The other version, played by Maihar Gharana artists, uses the same set of notes as Ahir Bhairav: flat 2 & flat 7:

S r G m P D n S'

But the movement is more complex, D and n are not used in ascending, and the descending is crooked:

S r G m P S' S' D n P G m r S

S r G m P m P S'ā€“ S' D 'n P ā€“ G P m G m r Sā€“

There's a good example of this version on an old LP by Lal Mani Misra:

http://www.discogs.com/Dr-Lalmani-Misra-Nectar-Of-The-Moon-Vichitra-Vina-Music-Of-Northern-India/release/2572169

Check out the examples of Ananda Bhairav about a third of the way down:

http://www.sawf.org/Newedit/edit05292000/musicarts.ASP

Most of these, including parts of Ravi Shankar's, seem half way between the two versions: shuddh Ni and Dha in ascending, but also S' D n P in descending. I don't have the whole track available, but I recall noticing that the shuddh ni is used more in the gat than in the alap.

The really interesting thing about that particular recording is the gat: IIRC, the entire thing, beginning to end, is in triplets, something I've never heard anywhere else: so rupak tal, normally counted as 3+2+2, is counted as 9+6+6.
0
nicneufeld

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,564
Reply with quote  #4 
Many thanks to the both of you!

I'm an absolute beginner to this stuff (having learned the Sargam only a month or two ago) but its nice to know there is a forum like this out there, with people willing to explain things to beginners like me!

Somebody appears to have put the music online for anyone interested:
0
jaan e kharabat

Registered:
Posts: 1,401
Reply with quote  #5 
Thanks for that link to RS's recording. It sounds very Bhatiyaric in the upper tetrachord which is then dispelled by that n D P. Very interesting performance.
__________________
If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
0
nicneufeld

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,564
Reply with quote  #6 
I was about to ask what Bhatiyaric meant, but then google pointed me to the raga bhatiyar...particularly this very colorfully done explanation, which I found amusing and pleasantly atypical of most textual descriptions of ragas:
http://goose-egg.blogspot.com/2006/08/raaga-of-day.html
0
jaan e kharabat

Registered:
Posts: 1,401
Reply with quote  #7 
Indeed! His ''analysis" of raga Rageshri is equally entertaining.
__________________
If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
0
John

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 425
Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
That's hilarious.

__________________
"Truth cannot be taught, truth can only be discovered"
-- Hazrat Inayat Khan
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.