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BWV

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Reply with quote  #1 
I have noticed that certain players have characteristic melodies they use within particular ragas. The best example I can think of is Amjad Ali Khan in Raga Durga (another example would be Vishwa Mohan Bhaat in Tilak Kamod). I have recordings of Durga also by Ali Akbar Khan and Ravi Shankar, and several of Amjad Ali Khan. Amjad uses a very distinctive melody in the teental? (fast) section which the other players do not. Do players tend to have "signature" melodies for certain ragas which would be bad form for other musicans to use? or are there a number of commonly used melodies for a particular raga.
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #2 
Ragas do not have a "Tune" associated with them.
I think what you are refering to is a "Gat".
A gat is fixed composition within a performance of a raga.
The way a particular raga works suggests the way a Gat can be created for that particular raga.

This is the part of a raga that is most easily be heard by a listener as a recognizable "Tune".
The reason you associate particular gats with particular players is just that they are gats that these players like to play.
With players from the same gharana will often play the same or similar gats.
In particular school of music there are always gats that are the best of the bunch and happen to be so good that most of the players from that school use that gat or a variation of it for their performances.
Ustad Ali Akbar Khan and Pandit Ravi Shankar are from the same gharana so you can hear gats that are common to both.
When they studied with their guru Ustad Allauddin Khan they were filled with a variety of gats from his mental archives.
Sometimes a player can hear a gat from another performer and enjoy it so much that he uses the gat in his own performance.
There are stories of Ustad Vilayat Khan on his way to play a performance, hearing a woman in the street singing a beautiful gat. He liked it so much that he used it in his performance that night. He appearantly had a photographic memory.

Some gats are just better than others so the player can rely heavily on one in particular for each raga.
Anyone can compose a gat, but it has to follow the rules of the raga, and fulfill certain requirements.
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BWV

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Reply with quote  #3 
OK Thanks for the info.

Some googling shows that Ali Akbar Khan and Ravi Shankar are part of the Maihar gharana while Amjad Ali Khan is part of Ghulam Ali gharana - so I could expect Mohammed Amir Khan (who I have not heard), also of that gharana, so perhaps play the same Gats as Amjad Ali Khan?

http://indianclassical.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28&Itemid=1

How about Vishwa Mohan Bhatt? Is he associated with a particular gharana?
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #4 
Vishwa Mohan Bhatt is a leading disciple of Pandit Ravi Shankar so he comes from the Maihar gharana.
Pandit Ravi Shankar has disciples who play many different instruments.
His guru Allauddin Khan was a multi instrumentalist, but was know primarily for Sarod.
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trippy monkey

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Reply with quote  #5 
You can 'take' any gat from anyone & adapt it to your style.
We don't learn everything from only th guru.

A 'Pakard' or characteristic phrase is common to all versions of a particular raga & is used to disassociate it from a near family raga that uses the same notes.

Nick
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ragamala

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "trippy
You can 'take' any gat from anyone & adapt it to your style.
We don't learn everything from only th guru.

Nick
This raises an interesting question or two(to me anyway!).

Could you as a sitar player take as a guru a vocalist? Could a vocalist take as a guru a sitar player?

I think these are two different questions, maybe with two different answers. Or three.

Could you really as a sitar player devote yourself only to a sarangi player as a teacher? Or vice versa?

A gat is not a bandish, and this question of "tunes" being shared or otherwise between different players and different schools of plucked instrumental playing is not as fundamental as the major difference compared with vocal-oriented "tunes" be it in khyal or dhrupad format.
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trippy monkey

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Reply with quote  #7 
Ravi Shankar NEVER learnt formally from a sitar player as far as I know, although I think he had some training when he was little. Only from Allauddin Khan who didn't play sitar but knew its technique. Probably explains Ravi 'mixed' sitar/sarod technique. :wink:

Once one knows about basic technique of, say, sitar then one can go to anybody to gain gats or bandishes etc. It could be an interesting gauging of a guru to see how they can teach a different medium.

When all's said & done, we are supposed to be imitating certain vocal styles when we play. Well, that's the idea anyway!!!

Personally I couldn't devote the rest of my learning life to a sarangi player although that would never be the case due to constant India visits. 8)

Sitarist FROM vocalist YES!! but vocalist from sitarist....??????
:?
Nick
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