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povster

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Reply with quote  #31 
I think this is a good candidate to move out of SITAR/SURBAHAR and into GENERAL. It would get more exposure there. Not a slam on the original poster, emmanuel, who seems to be new here.

I am hitting GENERAL now with a related topic.

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anandvyasorg

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Reply with quote  #32 
You are right that most on this forum are not pretentious enough to call themselves MAsters ~ that said there are teachers and players of VERY high caliber on this forum. Professionals no doubt as well. IMHO There are just simply too few people on the forum ~ access to computers is very hard in India.
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ragamala

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Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "anandvyasorg"
There are just simply too few people on the forum ~ access to computers is very hard in India.
Access to computers and internet difficult in India?? I really have to challenge that one. for the last ten years internet availability has been spreading so rapidly you can't believe it, and you would have to be visually challenged not to be able to find an internet cafe in any city or town, of whatever size, with minimal searching. Re computers themselves, in Kolkata, which I only mention because that's where I am now, you can hardly move own the street without falling over a computer store with a stock of new desktops laptops and netbooks.

Has it occurred to you, Anand, that the reason the forum has few Indian members is entirely different? That the forum is heavily oriented towards westerners, their experience of HCM, and almost exclusively instrumental music?
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ragamala

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Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "povster"

........

Something else as well, especially in the West (I will speak for the United states here). Much of the imagery evoked in a raga would be lost in, say, Boston or Manhattan or even San Francisco. Reinterpretations would have to be done. Not being a wise guy but instead of the image of cows kicking up dust in the early sunset, we would have to have cars kicking up smog. (so to speak).

I think the tradition and understanding of time should continue. But I also feel it has to be violated to hear a larger portion of ragas, regardless of where one is.
Fair points in general, can I just suggest that for me the time tradition is there not for a raga to evoke the feeling of a morning, evening, midnight, or whatever, BUT to suggest that the best time for a raga to evoke the proper rasa is when performed a certain time of day. There is a difference here.

But to me another significant point is that we in the west can not expect the traditions which have been handed down through generations of hereditary musicians to be put aside because we are a new tappable market for HCM, and our lifestyles don't encourage the likes of all-night and morning concerts. Cultural imperialism can only extend so far.

I return to the suggestions earlier including from Josh F - audience and promoters be more flexible.
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jaan e kharabat

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Reply with quote  #35 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "ragamala"
the time tradition is there not for a raga to evoke the feeling of a morning, evening, midnight, or whatever, BUT to suggest that the best time for a raga to evoke the proper rasa is when performed a certain time of day.
Indeed, that is the theory.

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anandvyasorg

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Reply with quote  #36 
Yes for us with"money" my friend. A real ethernet connection is costly ~ i own a home here and to get a connection that is adequate speed it is rupees 5000 per month. When I went to print my "local" Ahmedabad business cards, I simply put the website address and a few other things. Everyone i know, here, said that is bad idea because no not enough people will or can get on the intenet (English is also a problem, and least for my Kahnsahib's). All my teachers mentioned the fact that they themselves do not have the time (nor money in some cases) to go to an internet much less it be the only means of contact.
Yes ~ it is spreading like the plague, which is great ~ but the Data cards are slow, and the faster ones require too much money for most here. I then "did not listen" and went to print them anyway for us ~ my friend, guitarist in videos is living as well l ~ and the "business card" guy asked where my phone number and "contact" was... I said that is my contact. He basically laughed and said are you sure? I said yes ~ that was 4 months and one email ago. Last week i got them printed with a phone number ~ 14 calls in a week.
It is accessible to us brother because we have more income basically. My father who is 70 and was born in India but has been America for 40 years (Ph.D. Sociology and Criminal Justice) always laughs when i say i am enjoying it here in India ~ he says "Try earning in Rupees... India is only fun if you are extremely wealthy in rupees (2 percent maybe) or come from a country with a nice exchange rate You do my son" ~ Just my experience
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ragamala

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Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "anandvyasorg"
Yes for us with"money" my friend.
Many would consider that the internet charges I pay, 15 rupees per hour, were very reasonable. And these internet cafes are packed with Indian customers, many of them young, many students.

Scale it up by middle class income rates and you will still find Indian internet access is cheap by western standards and more available .

Packed too are the new chains of coffee cafes, where eg an espresso costs 35 rupees, more in real terms than in a cheap bar in Italy. There is a new breed of young middle class who have more money to enjoy a better standard of life than I have in Europe. If you've not seen all this you're not keeping your finger on the real pulse.

And what do you mean by "real ethernet connection"?

You are talking to the wrong people, I think. I know people in Ahmedabad who have fast broadband home connections, no problem.
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anandvyasorg

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Reply with quote  #38 
Do you know the 38 percent that live in cloth homes or "shantys" like my last Tabla Guru ? The people we know ~ are the TOP 2 percent of India. The cybers are packed (the few that there are relative to the population, you also do not consider TIME of getting there just to contact someone then come back to "chack" if a reply has been...)~ but just check what they are doing, not business calls or getting "back" to a flyer, they are "chatting" pure and simple. I will post videos to show you i have the "pulse" ~ i also play at many Universities (again top 2 percent of population) ~ they still don't use the internet "yet" for pure contact purposes. I have the pulse ~ do you not realize you are hanging with at the most the top 10 percent of the population? Of course the "experience" you have is "different". Ethernet is expensive ~ period and not everyone (except the people we know) can afford it ~ I am talking about most of India. Its getting there but in country where the Cell Phone industry is just starting to hit everywhere ~ meaning finally it is close to Western countries where everyone has one, next the internet. Not yet. I have been coming back and forth for 9 years ~ and seen this. I am in India my friend ~ and there are the MAjor parts that have NO internet. Still 80 percent of the country if not more. Call Sharma Music ~ they will explain the same, they gave me advice on business cards. They do not even list there website ~ you also forget these people have be tech saavy, many musicians aren't. But okay man
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ragamala

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Reply with quote  #39 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "anandvyasorg"
Do you know the 38 percent that live in cloth homes or "shantys" like my last Tabla Guru ? ..............................


Its getting there but in country where the Cell Phone industry is just starting to hit everywhere ~ meaning finally it is close to Western countries where everyone has one, next the internet. Not yet. I have been coming back and forth for 9 years ~ and seen this. I am in India my friend ~ and there are the MAjor parts that have NO internet. Still 80 percent of the country if not more.
Dear Anand

I am not trying to score points by saying I have been coming to India for 40 years, and have seen many things. And many changes. I am in an internet cafe in calcutta right now with street people sleeping on the pavement outside - not even a shanty shack for them. This includes a tiny new born baby. Stepped over by men and girls chatting on their mobile phones. I don't need to be told about these things, but what I do say is that what is most striking about recent changes in Inda is how affluence is becoming more visible, especially amongst the younger people. Of course it is a proportion of the populaion, but it is a rapidly growing proportion who have access to modern technology, and a bigger figure than you suggest.

Since the 1990s it has not been difficult to get internet connection, even if it used to be over slow dial-up. I have travelled over most of India, including remote areas, in that time.

Re mobile phones, I recall, as an example, in Gujerat the number of mobile phones passed the ten million mark in late 2006, that was a sixth of the population. I don't know what it is now. The coverage is wider than you sggest, methinks?

All this is irrelevant to the point that finance has nothing to do with Indian contributions, whether by Ustads or musc lovers, to this form, so can we abandon this sidetrack?
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anandvyasorg

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Reply with quote  #40 
I said I agree that mobiles have finally caught up _ but there a billion people here and not even 350,000,000 have phones ~ thats 70 percent without. Anyway its all over the media ~ it may hit 500 million (50 percent) by the end of the year. Thats why it so profitable. And my dear brother ~ fiancee has so much to do with contributions to this music, from the court musicians (for the king) to railway and oil tycoons making great festivals (and in some cases their Guru more famous than he/ she would have been without) for the people. Anyway its cool bro Another topic
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