INDIAN MUSIC FORUMS

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jaan e kharabat

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Reply with quote  #46 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Aanaddha"
Quote:
Originally Posted by "jaan

For me to to say tongue-in-cheek, that in India rape, murder etc, occurs on a daily basis is not disparaging its culture. Its a simple fact of life in any society so why not in India, besides the fact that we know for sure it occurs in India?
If as you say, "rape, murder, etc." are "simple"(?) "facts of life in any society" and "that we know for sure it occurs", then why is it necessary for you to reminds us??



A.
Read the original post where i said that, and all the subsequent explanations that i have made and you will know for yourself, or do you want me to throw more bones???!!!

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If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
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Aanaddha

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Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "jaan
.... or do you want me to throw more bones???!!!
If empty bones are all you have to offer then you should expect nothing more nourishing in return.
(meaning: the dogs will sharpen their teeth to bite you.) :wink:

A.

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If he could sing, and nature to accompany him, what need would he have for an instrument?
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jaan e kharabat

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Reply with quote  #48 
Don't cry Aanadha.

It's just people like you would not know marrow if it hit them square in the face, instead you just like to fight over chewing rights to the bones.

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If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
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scodoha

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Reply with quote  #49 
So does anybody know if there is anybody who makes tabla with human skin? I know there are other drums that have human skin, but I have yet to come across tabla with this skin. I know this will probably make the tabla sound significantly different, but I would be willing to sacrifice this,... as long as it's not my skin.
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scodoha

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Reply with quote  #50 
no joke I guess . . .

http://tserve01.aid.design.kyushu-u.ac.jp/~baba/works/freqtricdrums/videos.php?id=demo_play.flv
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Aanaddha

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Reply with quote  #51 
I remember seeing a cartoon once when I was 6 years old that had pygmy head-hunters playing a dixieland drumset with what appeared to be a pair of large femurs?

A.

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If he could sing, and nature to accompany him, what need would he have for an instrument?
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Anonymous

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Reply with quote  #52 
I don't want to get into the human skin thing. Too taboo.

"I am saying that it is not the culture of everyone in India, and that there are significant portions of her population for whom it is not a taboo and that they do partake in its consumption as attested by my own experience, and that it is unreasonable to assume that this minority completely obeys the taboo of the majority or that in Keshav Das's case, the absence of evidence is evidence of absence; what is so disparaging in this?"


Just to clarify, I never said that absense of evidence is evidence of absence. What I was saying was that lack of evidence over a ten year span implies implausibility. That's why I said I was "politely skeptical". The universe is filled with the unlikely and the unexpected. I always say to folks going there for the first time: India is what happens to you when you are making plans. If you go there (or any other "different" culture) with closed mind or lack of tolerance - you will be miserable.
Peace,
Keshav
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Aanaddha

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Reply with quote  #53 
BTW - India shouldn't be blamed for all of it's present vices; Britian and Portugal should be recognized for their contributions, too!

A.

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If he could sing, and nature to accompany him, what need would he have for an instrument?
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jaan e kharabat

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Reply with quote  #54 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Keshav
Just to clarify, I never said that absense of evidence is evidence of absence. What I was saying was that lack of evidence over a ten year span implies implausibility.
Peace,
Keshav
I would say that in your case no. You are Hindu who doesnt eat meat all that often, and I would guess that while you were living in India, even less. You have seen butcheries in old Delhi but havent asked what they have because obviously you didnt want meat. The 'evidence' or lack of it of which you speak relates mostly to restuarants and public place where the hindu paradigm is almost all pervasive, i have no quarrel with you in not finding 'evidence' at those places, and i actually agree.

Ask a Dehlawai muslim friend of yours. If he says that they don't have the meat there, then i will think seriously about doubting the evidence of my own senses.

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If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
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Anonymous

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Reply with quote  #55 
I should say, that while I do retain the name Keshav Das (given to me by a very sweet saint) - I am not of the belief that any spiritual path is exclusive or in any way "the only way". When I am in Delhi, I always visit with friends at Hazrat Inayat Khan Darga and make a point of paying my respects at Nizzamuddin and Jama Masjid. My wife and I always take time to make a donation to the kitchens in Nizamuddin and Jama Masjid that feed the poor in the bazaar. Being inveterate shoppers, we love to comb the isles of the Jama Masjid bazaar looking for interesting items for the shop. So we are reasonably well aquainted with what is sold there. Also - not all Hindus are veg. Like me, pretty much all my Bengali friends eat fish. In any event - I don't maintain that the whole beef thing is "impossible". And if I'm ignorant of such an anomaly - it wouldn't be because I spend all my time with "Hindu blinders" on, nor would it be because of any lack of exposure to Muslim culture.
Cheers,
Keshav
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jaan e kharabat

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Reply with quote  #56 
Im not suggesting that you have no exposure to muslim culture in India or that you do not frequent their places of business and cultural life, I am merely pointing out that when you used 'restuarants' and 'menues' and 'food', these were probably mostly in the context of the wider Indian community where by my own experience also, the Hindu paradigm is almost all persuasive, and in this context I haven't encountered beef consumption either.

So where have I encountered it? At the Muslim butcheries in old Dehli which sell veal to other Muslims ( and others if they wish it, I imagine?) for consumption at home.

P.S. I know that not all Hindus are strict vegetarians. Plenty eat fish and even chicken and lamb or whatever. I am and have been exposed to Hindu culture as much as you to Muslim culture i believe, through places of habitation (hindus have lived where ever i have lived, Afghanistan, India, Australia), films, music, literature etc etc. Even a part of my ancestory traces itself to India, albeit to a Muslim dominated area, namely Kashmir.

Historically and culturally, but with different emphasis, Afghans and Indians are akin to the French and English of Europe after all is said and done, with the qualification that culture tends to vary a lot more over distances in the east than it does in the west .

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If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
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trippy monkey

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Reply with quote  #57 


Since when has homosexuality brought a country to its knees, so to speak
And why put it in the same sentence as child pornography? Or divorce for that matter.

C P IS a serious problem but the other 2 are from personal choice & of NO BUSINESS whatsoever of do-gooders or fascists of any kind.

I, too, have never seen beef hanging anywhere. Pork, chicken, lamb etc YES. Fish too but no menu I ever saw in my 5 trips had any meat apart from this. That doesn't mean, of course, it isn't eaten by anyone.

Afghans/Indians English/French Very true.


Quite a few Indians are just as ill-informed of the west as westerners can be accused of regarding India. At least 2 times in Varanasi did I hear some-one whine about the so-called wealth we 'Brits' were supposed to have taken from India. If so where IS it? Where did it all go?
'We Brits' did leave trains & bureaucracy after all :wink:

I don't think anyone on these forums actually hates India. One can't just love the recipe for curry & hate the cook. That's ridiculous. Dislike must be based on experience & NOT prejudice of any kind.

BTW Thanks to do-gooders & the PC lot here in the UK, we 'white' indigenous Brits have been made to feel second class & ashamed to be British. This has caused dangerous backlashes, more so now as more eastern Europeans have been allowed to 'flood' the work market.
There are those here, too, that would try to regulate others' thoughts.


It depends on whether it's true or not. We've had this 'who the hell do you think you are' crap before. Aanadha, you yourself mentioned about Islamic intolerance in India in Abdul's post on music. Do you have nothing bad to say about the country you live in? Where exactly ARE you living at the moment?

We should remember we are ALL of the earth & all is just varying aspects of human experience & culture.

As Keshav rightly says, the USA IS getting a good stoning at the moment & not least here in the UK.

On all my trips to India, I've never felt any animosity towards tourists although I kept a 'Times of India' front page article 'blaming' druggy tourists for destroying the sanctity of Varanasi whilel I was there just before xmas last year. Why would Indians feel the need to sell the stuff in the first place?

It would be interesting to see what would happen if no-one went there from abroad or availed themselves of India's exports if only for a week.

Nick
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Anonymous

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Reply with quote  #58 
Funny you should ask. My wife and I went to Banares not two weeks after the 9/11 incident. Banares was a ghost town. Even the ever-present Israeli hippies had gone home to join the army, or who knows, get a job. At the time - I had more or less decided that I wasn't going back there anymore - because the touts other various parasites consistantly ruined the bhava. But my wife had never been there - so I grudgingly agreed to go one more time. It was delightful! So mellow - it seemed not to be the same city at all. Not even many Indian tourists were visiting because of the fear of using mass transportation was so high. The poor merchants were so downcast and defeated by the huge economic slump, that they were uniformly pathetic. Someone would come up and offer us some bad deal, and we'd say "Yahan say jao" and that was it - they would just drift away. No repeated offers, no following us down the street, with all the " I just want to be friends" scamming. I've never seen Banares so civilized in some 20 odd visits there. It was like a honeymooner's paradise.
When we'd been preparing to leave folks were all saying we should avoid Muslim neighborhoods, what with all the tamasha going on in Afhanistan; advice we easily ignored. We were treated well at any mosque we visited and fed and entertained by several muslim families we met on that trip. Someone one gave me a good piece of advice for circumstances of that nature. Which was, that in time of conflict between countries, religions or cultures, people may hate the "idea" of America (or any other aggressor) but not Americans. I've always found this to be true.
Cheers,
Keshav
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jaan e kharabat

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Reply with quote  #59 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "trippy



Quite a few Indians are just as ill-informed of the west as westerners can be accused of regarding India. At least 2 times in Varanasi did I hear some-one whine about the so-called wealth we 'Brits' were supposed to have taken from India. If so where IS it? Where did it all go?
'We Brits' did leave trains & bureaucracy after all :wink:



BTW Thanks to do-gooders & the PC lot here in the UK, we 'white' indigenous Brits have been made to feel second class & ashamed to be British. This has caused dangerous backlashes, more so now as more eastern Europeans have been allowed to 'flood' the work market.
There are those here, too, that would try to regulate others' thoughts.


Nick

To the first point, try having a look inside museums, the Tower of London and the Estates of the Gentry for a taste.

As to the second point, well you can always get out of the European Union if you don't like it!


This is the problem in general with a pan-anglo-saxon political outlook: they want to have the cake and eat it too, plus decide on how it should be sliced and who else should be able to smell it!

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If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
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Aanaddha

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Reply with quote  #60 
This is drifting considerably from the topic, but what the hell, I'm game.



Duh, to the British Museum, dispersed amongst the Crown and in countless private collections - and that's only the jewels and artwork part. To be fair, most of Europe, Russia, and China also had a hand at looting India. The United States and Japan have only recently made efforts to get what's left.



Believe it or not there is a VERY significant difference between disparaging someone else's culture AND criticizing their government's domestic and foreign policies and economic agendas. The former is bigotry in any form true or false. The latter should not only be tolerated, but encouraged by everyone, everywhere, at any time.




???



About the people, no. About our Government and our Corporations, our foreign and domestic policies, very much so.



Yeah, right, where have I heard that line before? "We are one, we are the people, let's hold hands and drink 'Pepsi', eat 'McDonalds", and meet at 'Starbucks'.



http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=33c216a0d912b2ea1cf759fde81bd39b

BTW - I would be very ashamed to be an American visiting Bhopal.

A.

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If he could sing, and nature to accompany him, what need would he have for an instrument?
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