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jaan e kharabat

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Reply with quote  #31 
Muslims and non-muslims eat beef in India!

Have you ever been to a butchery near the Jami Masjid at Shahjahanabad? We used to aquire all our beef and other meats there when living in New Delhi.

Natural causes please.

Yes its a predominantly hindu country and for most cows are sacred untouchable(for killing that is) creatures, but i once read a funny article that posed the question: India produces around 400 million kgs of beef yearly about half of which is exported, and there is no way that 'muslims' alone could consume the other half.

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If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
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Anonymous

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Reply with quote  #32 
Yes - in fact I have been there - but naturally I had no reason to ask
what kind of meat they were serving - nor did I have occaision to ask them the source of the meat. I have no way to authoritatively say and would not speculate about the manner in which said beef was acquired. It is however curious that in 10 years of living in India - I have seen goat, buffalo, chicken and fish - killed and sold in public areas in large and small towns - but never have I seen a side of beef offered for sale. I still like to eat fish and on the odd occaision fish or lamb, but never in all my travels have I seen beef on a menu in any resturant in India. Even Mac Donalds in India only sells "lamb-burgers". Frankly, given their poor health, their attrocious diet and the environment in which most of the boney old cows exist in India - I can't say I'd want to dine on them - even if I was still eating red meat.
Peace,
Keshav
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Aanaddha

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Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Greg"
Hi
Given that the problem with a synthetic tabla head seems to be the syahi are there no budding material scientists out there that can come up with some suggestions....?
G
The 'synthetic' tabla head must be manufactured from recycled materials and fitted to a synthetic shell to appease the multitudes of environmental, tree-saving tabla players many of whom may also be hyper-sensitive to synthetic materials and demand that only 'natural' materials go into the making of tablas. :roll:

A.

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If he could sing, and nature to accompany him, what need would he have for an instrument?
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jaan e kharabat

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Reply with quote  #34 
Well im telling you from my own experience that we bought meat there. Sure there is not alot of it around, mostly goat meat and a little lamb, but beef is available mostly as veal, not so much of the mature type. This is in Delhi, in Bombay you can forget it. Very difficult to find red meat there, mostly fish.

Of course, it makes no sense for MacDonalds to make beef burgers. There is no market for it, apart from any outrage that might be caused, same probably goes for the other restuarants, it doesnt mean however that Muslims and others don't consume the meat in private. Hindus even if not particularly religious still on the whole refrain from eating beef, just like less religious pleople of Muslim background not touching pork products.

BTW hope people dont find this conversation offensive, but just trying to state the reality of the situation.

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If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
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Anonymous

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Reply with quote  #35 
I'll only say that I'm politely skeptical - and leave it at that. What is germane here (as far as I can tell) is the possibilities for making a
pukka tabla without the use of real skin, a subject which is pretty much exhausted. We need an emoticon with sunken eyes and a tongue hanging limply to the side to express that, no?
Cheers,
Keshav
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Aanaddha

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Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Keshav
I'll only say that I'm politely skeptical - and leave it at that. What is germane here (as far as I can tell) is the possibilities for making a
pukka tabla without the use of real skin, a subject which is pretty much exhausted. We need an emoticon with sunken eyes and a tongue hanging limply to the side to express that, no?
Cheers,
Keshav
Agreed. I have no beef with that.

:wink:

A.

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If he could sing, and nature to accompany him, what need would he have for an instrument?
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jaan e kharabat

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Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Keshav
I'll only say that I'm politely skeptical -
Keshav
What i would find skeptical is that in a country where people on a daily basis murder, rape, cheat, steal, and are known to contain almost every human vice knowable, still mangages abstain from this one desire to slaughter one particular animal even though at least one tenth of its population, who it be said are a majority in some areas, probably relish its taste. Well there must never have been such a country as resolute and steadfast in its virtues as India. :wink:

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If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
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taal

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Reply with quote  #38 
This time I cant resist posting, although I just ignored so far and try to stick to principle topic of Tabla.
I see here the root cause of the problem in some of the posts…..considerable hatred towards India and some of the beliefs in India. Well, I am not here to defend…it is not needed…an educated, well informed and in general the….whole world knows what are contributions of India to humankind….esp. concepts like Ahimsa in today’s growing threat of terrorism.. It is also true that no society in any country is free from problems, some of the societies even face serious problems such high rates of divorce, child pornography, homosexuality and so on.
Lets stick to the Tabla, the subject this forum is meant for. If someone wants to vomit his hatred, may kindly find another forum. By blaming a country at a stroke in an International forum like this, one may show nothing but his ignorance and stupidity.
I hope this message and request is taken in proper sense by the wise.

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Regards;
Taal
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Shivadhyanam

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Reply with quote  #39 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "jaan
What i would find skeptical is that in a country where people on a daily basis murder, rape, cheat, steal, and are known to contain almost every human vice knowable...
...do you mean Australia???
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Anonymous

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Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "taal"
This time I cant resist posting, although I just ignored so far and try to stick to principle topic of Tabla.
I see here the root cause of the problem in some of the posts…..considerable hatred towards India and some of the beliefs in India. Well, I am not here to defend…it is not needed…an educated, well informed and in general the….whole world knows what are contributions of India to humankind….esp. concepts like Ahimsa in today’s growing threat of terrorism.. It is also true that no society in any country is free from problems, some of the societies even face serious problems such high rates of divorce, child pornography, homosexuality and so on.
Lets stick to the Tabla, the subject this forum is meant for. If someone wants to vomit his hatred, may kindly find another forum. By blaming a country at a stroke in an International forum like this, one may show nothing but his ignorance and stupidity.
I hope this message and request is taken in proper sense by the wise.
It's safe to say that no one country has exclusive rights to the negative
behaviours previously described. Every culture has a few quirks that other cutures like to point out and laugh about. It's human nature. We're all tribal to some degree. No-one likes to feel like they're being singled out all the time for being "different". On the internet - it's especially easy to be insensitive to that. When I travel in India - I am always being stopped by folks who want to endlessly discuss how wealthy all Americans are - which I find annoying as hell, and I always tell them about all the folks on welfare, the rural poor in the South and tribulations of many inner-city dwellers. But they never hear a word I say. Funny thing - I just drove from LA to San Francisco - and passing through Beverly Hills, Belair, Santa Barbara, Carmel etc. etc., I found myself astonished and embarassed by the sheer numbers of millionaires. Inequity between the classes is present everywhere - but, my God, experiencing first hand the insane number of ostentaceously wealthy people - makes me realize just how ignorant I've been. Next time some rikshaw-wallah says "everybody in America very rich" I will only be able to nod my head.
.......... Like the man said: "Love is hot - Truth is molten"
Peace,
Keshav
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jaan e kharabat

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Reply with quote  #41 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "taal"
I see here the root cause of the problem in some of the posts…..considerable hatred towards India and some of the beliefs in India.
Ok I hope you don't mean me. Because if you do, you better back off quickly. My point was that EVERY country is full of vice, just like every one of us has somekind of vice, but remarkable is how every one in this one particular country, India , as was being implied by Keshav Das, resists (an accusation not borne out by the evidence of my own and my families eyes and taste buds i remind you) this one particular vice (according to the majority view there that is of course!)? I was being ironic! This is tantamount to saying something like you will never have and never will find alcohol and pork in a predominantly Muslim country ( leaving aside the fact that India this segment makes a large and influential segment with their own distinct rights and views on things), quite frankly a view laughably partizan in the least, and not backed up by fact!

And BTW please don't equate the beliefs of a sectarian division of a country with that of the whole even if they are a majority. I shouldnt have to defend what i thought was clear cut, but it seems people don't read sensitively enough, but for the record, i do personally think the "HINDU" apprehension in killing livestock is laudable , even if i am not a vegetarian i would say that we can learn to be more responsible in this context, esp in the excessive west.

P.S. I take for granted that every country and society share all manner of vices, including and especially the ones that i have 'accused' India of, this a simple fact of life..

As to synthetics, sure it might be 'good' that we stop slaughtering animals when possible and use substitutes, but unfortunately in the long run we will dig the earth and ruin the animals enviroment in search of these synthetic materials that will probably ultimately cause more harm to those same animals. But then as the economist's old saying goes "in the long run, we are all dead!"

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If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
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Anonymous

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Reply with quote  #42 
"I see here the root cause of the problem in some of the posts…..considerable hatred towards India and some of the beliefs in India."

There is a re-occurring "they're throwing out the baby with the bathwater" mind-set in these forum threads. One can - criticize or disagree with one particular aspect of a culture - without damning the whole. It's inevitable that aspects of Indian culture will be discussed here - because the forum exists for the purpose of discussing an Indian art form: a natural extension of Indian cuture. You really can't seperate the two. As a Westerner, who hears constant discussion of American culture and politics in all sort of media - I have learned to accept the brickbats that frequently accompany the bouquets. In order to discuss any topic meaningfully - all the parts of the puzzle must be available - positive, negative and all the gray areas in-between. Otherwise, we are reduced to having a forum that spends too much time indulging in mere flattery of the culture.
Peace,
Keshav
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Aanaddha

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Reply with quote  #43 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Keshav
Otherwise, we are reduced to having a forum that spends too much time indulging in mere flattery of the culture.
Peace,
Keshav
Flattering another's culture or one's own culture, however indulgent, is generally viewed as acceptable behavior; as is disparaging one's own culture. Disparaging another's culture, despite your experiences or expertise is, in essence, bigotry.

A.

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If he could sing, and nature to accompany him, what need would he have for an instrument?
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jaan e kharabat

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Reply with quote  #44 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Aanaddha"
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Keshav
Otherwise, we are reduced to having a forum that spends too much time indulging in mere flattery of the culture.
Peace,
Keshav
Flattering another's culture or one's own culture, however indulgent, is generally viewed as acceptable behavior; as is disparaging one's own culture. Disparaging another's culture, despite your experiences or expertise is, in essence, bigotry.

A.
Even if this was taken as being true, one has to ask who was being disparaging to India's culture?

For me to to say tongue-in-cheek, that in India rape, murder etc, occurs on a daily basis is not disparaging its culture. Its a simple fact of life in any society so why not in India, besides the fact that we know for sure it occurs in India?

If you think my suggestion that beef is consumed in that country is disparaging its culture, well this is the whole point. I am saying that it is not the culture of everyone in India, and that there are significant portions of her population for whom it is not a taboo and that they do partake in its consumption as attested by my own experience, and that it is unreasonable to assume that this minority completely obeys the taboo of the majority or that in Keshav Das's case, the absence of evidence is evidence of absence; what is so disparaging in this??.

P.S. look! if everyone agrees that in this last summary that i have made contains the essence of the points i made in the previous posts, then i will retract all the "strong" language percieved by some (outrageously I may add!) as an attack on the moral dignity of India.

I beginning to have serious doubts about the ability of our forumites to read the absolute crux of some posts. We had a discussion on an Al-Ghazzali monograph on music which turned into a all out slag fest on religion in genaral and Islam in particular, where the main point of the article was the relative merits or not of MUSIC. For al-Ghazzali, being a Theologian amongst other things, every single thing is a matter of law. If you are an areligious, then it article should have been about merits and drawbacks. If you are a spritualists, the about the good or bad of music. Or if you are a shephard, then will hurt the sheep or not? Know what i'm saying???

I have to paraphrase Rumi who of was speaking in a different but very similar context:

...take the Marrow, and throw the bones to the Dog's!


I hope we are not bcoming Dogs here.

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If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
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Aanaddha

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Reply with quote  #45 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "jaan

For me to to say tongue-in-cheek, that in India rape, murder etc, occurs on a daily basis is not disparaging its culture. Its a simple fact of life in any society so why not in India, besides the fact that we know for sure it occurs in India?
If as you say, "rape, murder, etc." are "simple"(?) "facts of life in any society" and "that we know for sure it occurs", then why is it necessary for you to reminds us that it occurs in India in particular or anywhere for that matter?? When someone speaks with their 'tongue in cheek' it's generally to disguise the barb.

btw - I was quoting Keshav, as a matter of fact. And no, I wasn't calling K. a bigot. I don't know what your experience with India is but I suspect Keshav has an understandable 'love/hate' relationship with aspects of Indian culture, that's all. It's the 'hate' part that's sometimes difficult for our Indian readers to digest.

A.

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If he could sing, and nature to accompany him, what need would he have for an instrument?
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