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Nick Proctor

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Reply with quote  #1 
Just been having a play on this wonderful Hiren Roy??? tonight Incredible wood carving on it, eh ?!?!?!
You couldn't get any more decoration on it if you tried ?!!?!?
Love that little cap put over the very top end of the neck where they usually just smooth it off ?!?!!?
Is it a Hiren Roy, then?

Nick 13 9 2019 (1).jpg  13 9 2019 (2).jpg  13 9 2019 (3).jpg  13 9 2019 (4).jpg  13 9 2019 (5).jpg  13 9 2019 (6).jpg  13 9 2019 (7).jpg  13 9 2019 (8).jpg  13 9 2019 (9).jpg  13 9 2019 (10).jpg  13 9 2019 (11).jpg  13 9 2019 (12).jpg  13 9 2019 (13).jpg  13 9 2019 (14).jpg 

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barend

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Reply with quote  #2 
Not sure. All the Hiren Roys I have seen have the plastic or bone (?) white string retainer. Not the metal ones.
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Nick Proctor

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Reply with quote  #3 
Hi again. Thing is - THAT part can be easily changed &, I would presume, not indicate a Hiren Roy or not, na?
Why do you feel HR would NOT use a metal one, please?

Isn't the decoration any indication of a particular maker?
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #4 
That is one of your nicer ones, but personally I dont think it is Hiren Roy. 
The carving does not seem quite up to HR standard. 
Nice, but not quite as glorious as the HR tablis of that style usually were. 

Also, as Barend mentioned, not sure if they ever used a metal langot. 

Lastly, I cant imagine HR ever making the taar gahan and Meru so close together that they would have to cut their badge way down to cram it in. 

That being said, it looks like a nice sitar. 
I could be wrong.
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barend

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Reply with quote  #5 
Yes it can be changed of course. Not sure why they wouldn't use a metal one. Also not sure if they never made sitars with a metal string holder. I just have never seen one with it. But I haven't seen all of them of course. Not sure about the decorations. I am not a HR expert...haha.

Cwrowds has a good point on the badge being cut down.
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #6 
That Taar Gahan is rather thick. 
Could be a replacement and was too thick, so the badge had to be cut short. 
It is possible. 

Looks like nice woods, nicely made, and nice penwork. 
I still dont think it is HR.

Looks more like a Naskar. 

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Nick Proctor

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Reply with quote  #7 
Fantastic set of replies & a BIG thanks from over the pond for them all.
THIS is what I need to find out.!!!

People may say 'well, he's been messing with sitars for soooo long now & can't tell if it's this or that maker'. Agreed 'cos I'm a player (hopefully) but I know what a good sitar sounds like.
MMM NASKAR ?!?!!? MMMM

cwroyds - The carving does not seem quite up to HR standard.
If so then I'd love to see MORE of HR's carving.!!!! Pics please ??!?!?

Is it possible it's been worked by HR & CO so they felt it warranted their nameplate. And is THAT plate authentic?

ANYWAY you over critical lot ?!!?? HA HA is the wood good stuff?

BIG thanks again
Nick

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barend

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Reply with quote  #8 
Now that I look at it again that metal string holder looks like it is a replacement. Since you see the lighter finish where the old one has been. Not sure though.
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #9 
LOL... Well, a critique is what you were looking for, so critique you got.   😉

No, I don't think it is possible that HR would put his label on a sitar he did not make, even if he worked on it. 
Not gonna happen. 
It could be a real HR badge though, just from another sitar.

Nothing wrong with Naskar. 
I have two and they are lovely sitars. 
Not that this one is definitely Naskar.
I just thought it looked more Naskar than HR in style. 
Im not sure it is either. 

Also I think since yours is "half-carved" style, with the gullu only half carved, a HR half carved would have beautiful spiral pegs.
They did awesome thick chunky spiral pegs for the half carved models. 
See this one at the Rowley Register: https://www.vintagesitars.com/product-page/late-1970s-hiren-roy

As for the tabli carving, HR had a certain style for that kind of tabli. 
It was usually a big flower on either side, with a little flip at the end. 
Check out the tabli in the pics below. 
It is a rather nice one that Nikhil Banerjee brought with him when he taught at Berkeley back in the day. 
I wanted to buy this one, but missed my chance. 
Not my photos, but cant remember who posted them. Hope they dont mind using them for academic purposes. 


Vintage-old-hiren roy3.jpg 

Vintage-old-hiren roy16.jpg 

Vintage-old-hiren roy14.jpg

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Nick Proctor

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Reply with quote  #10 
Now THAT is bloody gorgeous & I can see how mine is that little bit less deep carving on the tabli.!?!?!?
I have several 'Naskar's' myself & they're 2 of my very best sitars. Sound & playability-wise.
Having read & reread your post are we to assume because the pegs business is different that it's DEFFO NOT an HR?
Couldn't things have been added &/OR taken away or replaced along the way?
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Proctor
Now THAT is bloody gorgeous & I can see how mine is that little bit less deep carving on the tabli.!?!?!?
I have several 'Naskar's' myself & they're 2 of my very best sitars. Sound & playability-wise.
Having read & reread your post are we to assume because the pegs business is different that it's DEFFO NOT an HR?
Couldn't things have been added &/OR taken away or replaced along the way?



Yes, all parts could have been replaced.
Could be new pegs, new nut and taar gahan, new tailpiece, etc.
I still pretty certain it isn't a Hiren Roy. 
Older HR sitars are just super sweet and built like few others. 
The level of decoration, carving, and general construction are top notch. 

As you notice, it is really easy to see the difference in the level of carving. 
The carving on yours is nice, but obviously not quite up to the level of that HR I posted. 
Make sure you check out that Rawley Registry HR too. 
It has a very similar tabli carving to the one I posted. 
Thick ass carving with all angles finely finished. 

For me, it just isn't a Hiren Roy, but I think it is a nice looking sitar. 
Probably sounds just fine too. 
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Nick Proctor

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Reply with quote  #12 
No probs & a BIG thanks for educating me a bit.!!!

I DID look at that link & WOWEEEEEE, eh????

AS for sound & actual playability - SUPERB & I WILL record some vid of me playing ASAP.
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Sillofthedoor

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Reply with quote  #13 

I'm more inclined to think it could be but can't really argue it.

 

Rather I'd like to make some points:

 

The headstock is interesting, the undecorated endplate is unusual, you'd expect it to be decorated or not there at all.    But even more is the design of the penwork with no defining border . making the pointed corner ornaments stand out so instead they blend into the border surround.  that is Unusual, I've got a murari kanai lal that is like this...haven't seen it anywhere else.

 

And the discussion about carving doesn't fully take into account the different quality of photography and basic cleanliness of the instrument.  taking that into account and viewing the respective faceplate pictures, then removing the extra leaf ornament that protrudes level with and towards bridge on either side of cwroyds example (the little flip) which so adds to the overall effect, and the differences diminish considerably i didn't think the flip was always there, and I also get the impression that there tended to a difference to depth of carving between the number 1 and 2 models....not always but tended to be.

 

Also the marks around the langot don't to me speak of an earlier larger bone langot, they just indicate marks from cleaning the brass every now and again.

 

So some marks for and some against.

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