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pbercker

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Reply with quote  #1 
I'm continuing this thread on a seperate post since it was getting a bit too bid and unwieldy to read.
Quote:
Originally Posted by "hbajpai"
The essence of my point was, as simple as a Peshkaar sounds and as effortlessly it appears to be executed, the underlying complexities are significant and should be accounted for. In my own vernacular, if Kaidas are banging on the drums then a Peshkaar is constructing music from the drums. It takes a higher level of maturity, exposure and musical understanding to learn and execute a Peshkaar. A Peshkaar is a personal, individual creative style and should be discussed and presented with critical appreciation in a structured format.
I agree that there is a difference between peshkars and kaida, not just structurally in that kaidas are governed - and indeed constrained by - much more strict rules than peshkars are, but also aesthetically in that peshkars have a certain dignified and serene sense that is less evident in the kaida. There is perhaps even a rough similarity between peshkars, kaidas and relas and the Alap, Jor and Jhala in the opening movements of an instrumental piece, but this is perhaps just speculative.

However, while the aesthetical differences are evident, is it possible that even in your own vernacular terms, you make too much of the difference between peshkars and kaidas in that there's a rather wide gulf between banging on the drums and making music of the drums, a gulf that I confess I do not see as being so big between peshkars and kaidas. Indeed, I would point out that the gap between peshkars and kaidas is brigdged by the form known as the peshkar-kaida (a.k.a. kaida-peshkars). To some extent, such a composition is merely a peshkar that also obeys the rules of a kaida in its structure and in its development of variations.

Where I agree with you is that there's clearly an aethetic difference between peshkars and kaidas, but that I myself cannot fully articulate in words. The best that I can say is that peshkars have a certain sense of dignity, serenity and elegance and seriousness about them that seems less a characteristic of kaidas.

The insufficiently known tabla player and teacher Aloke Dutta writes of this a little bit in his POETIC DRUMMING expressing his annoyance that
Quote:
Tabla is no limited to a couple of relas and tihais! It is an ocean of wisom
He is not alone in thinking that (and certainly more so in the past) that tabla players would too often give in to superficial tricks and maneuvres that the public clamored for. He has long believed that another deeper approach can ensure that
Quote:
the audience will be showered with bliss, not tantalized with thrills. We will touch their souls, not tickle their lust. (page 4)
It seems evident that peshkars are eminently suited to this interesting role!



For anyone who does not know who Aloke Dutta is, he gave up accompaniment and decided to focus exclusively on solo tabla because he felt that the tabla deserves to be treated as a stand-alone instrument onto its own. This decision he made over 20 years ago when solo tabla was far rarer than it is today.

Pascal

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My opinion given without any warranties, expressed or implied, that it's even relevant. It would be folly to rely on my opinion without seeking more professional tabla advice. If you are suffering from a tabla condition, seek immediate attention.
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Luistabla

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Reply with quote  #2 
Pascal, i like your philosofical aproach to this subject, but i must admit i was hoping to get from these discussions some clear teachings about peshkar techniques, not just the philosofical discussion about what peshkar is and what peshkar provoques on the listener.. (although i think it ALL is important, philosophy ALSO!!!)

hbajpai wrote something interesting on the other thread that caught my eye:

" The essence of my point was, as simple as a Peshkaar sounds and as effortlessly it appears to be executed, the underlying complexities are significant and should be accounted for."

LET
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pbercker

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Luistabla"
Pascal, i like your philosofical aproach to this subject, but i must admit i was hoping to get from these discussions some clear teachings about peshkar techniques, not just the philosofical discussion about what peshkar is and what peshkar provoques on the listener.. (although i think it ALL is important, philosophy ALSO!!!)
It's funny that you should say that since my professional training is in fact in philosophy! On the other hand, being strictly an amateur at tabla, I have had no training in composing peshkars, and indeed would never dare to do so (it would be like trading compositions with say, Bethoven! Hey... Ludwig, look at this .... dha dha dha .... dhum! lol)

All that I can hope to do is to listen to as many peshkars as possible in order to better understand what is going on. This is made easier when the theme of the peshkar is made available for study. One has a better chance of understanding - or being able to hear - the variations of the peshkar that follows. Even better is to provide not only the theme, but the entire variations if at all possible. This is why I uploaded Aloke Dutta's peshkar, since it has a very nice performance by Tracy G, and because it comes from Dutta's book POETIC DRUMMING (which I have) I could upload not just the theme but all the variations for further study!! If nothing else it's immensely pleasurable just to be able to listen to the entire peshkar and to follow along the actual variations on paper. (some people may have misunderstood my intent however). In any case I am not entirely sure if there is any real interest, but will go ahead and upload the remaining 5 pages of densely packed variations for anyone to peruse. If nothing else it's interesting to see how the original peshkar slowly evolves into a rela.

Pascal

hbajpai wrote something interesting on the other thread that caught my eye:

" The essence of my point was, as simple as a Peshkaar sounds and as effortlessly it appears to be executed, the underlying complexities are significant and should be accounted for."

LET

__________________
My opinion given without any warranties, expressed or implied, that it's even relevant. It would be folly to rely on my opinion without seeking more professional tabla advice. If you are suffering from a tabla condition, seek immediate attention.
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