INDIAN MUSIC FORUMS

Sign up Calendar Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 2 of 3      Prev   1   2   3   Next
Nick Proctor

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 301
Reply with quote  #16 
AAHHH Don't worry about it - I thought it was funny anyway !!!!

Let's see what beauties we uncover THIS time, eh ?!?!?
0
cwroyds

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,206
Reply with quote  #17 
Of the ones you just posted picture of, I think the first one is the most likely to be a Hiren Roy. 
The tabli shots are not clear, so hard to be certain, but there are elements that seem correct. 
I have seen similar HRs.
Maybe an early Barun?
Can you take a more clear shot of the tabli on that one?
I would be interested in seeing a better shot. 

To me the third one with the MOP is wrong is so many ways.
I cant see how that could be Hiren Roy
Is there something that made you think it is?
I promise I am not being snarky. 
I just wonder what made you think it was genuine. 
0
Nick Proctor

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 301
Reply with quote  #18 
Don't recall saying I ever thought it WAS genwine?!?!?
Just liked it, as simple as that.
Will retake the one you mention.
0
cwroyds

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,206
Reply with quote  #19 
I thought that was the whole point in you posting the photos! 

You asked how much your HRs are worth, and I asked which of your sitars you thought was a genuine Hiren Roy. 
You posted those three sitars, so I assumed you believe them all to be genuine. 

Never mind. 
0
Nick Proctor

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 301
Reply with quote  #20 
I posted 3 of my sitars that have some kind of HR nameplate. Never said even if I cared whether they were HR or not as I like them anyway.

Here's new pics of my 'best'.
Post ended now, thanks.
20190703_155245.jpg  20190703_155254.jpg  20190703_155306.jpg  20190703_155310.jpg  20190703_155324.jpg  20190703_155344.jpg  20190703_155352.jpg

0
cwroyds

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,206
Reply with quote  #21 
That isn't the one I was talking about. 
The one I think might be Hiren Roy is this one:

HIREN ROY BEST (1).jpg 

0
Nick Proctor

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 301
Reply with quote  #22 
AHA !!!!!
0
cwroyds

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,206
Reply with quote  #23 
Got a better shot of that one's Tabli?
Best if the shot has the full tabli and the strike-plate
0
Nick Proctor

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 301
Reply with quote  #24 
Where did you get THIS pic from as the others should be there.? 
Need to see the nameplate, please!
0
Nick Proctor

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 301
Reply with quote  #25 
Found it now. HIREN ROY BEST (2).jpg  HIREN ROY BEST (3).jpg  HIREN ROY BEST (4).jpg  HIREN ROY BEST (5).jpg  HIREN ROY BEST (6).jpg  HIREN ROY BEST (7).jpg 
0
cwroyds

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,206
Reply with quote  #26 

So here it goes…

I did some snooping around, and I think you might have found a genuine Hiren Roy. Yea!
It is just my opinion, of course, so I could be mistaken.
I am just going by what I see, and from the examples I used to compare.

I have made comparison photos showing your sitar details alongside my Himangshu built Hiren Roy for the badge, and a Barun built Hiren Roy of similar model style from RainCityMusic.com for the rest. Hopefully Lars won’t be mad at me for using his images, as it is in the context of research and learning.
That sitar is already sold, so I think it should be OK.

My reasoning is as follows:

Photo 1 - This shows your sitar’s badge next to the badge of my Himangshu built 1980s Hiren Roy. The badge appears to be totally genuine, and sits in the space the same way as mine. The nut/Taar Gahan seem to be very similar too. That older style badge is very unique and easily identifiable, and little details, like how letters are all separate apart from the “oy”, and the style of the ampersand “&”, show it to be genuine. I put your badge on top of mine, and it is absolutely an exact match. Genuine badge for sure.

Photo 2 - This shows the tabli detail of the carving and swan. The Hiren Roy swan always had two extra points at the topside of back of the tail. That was their style. And the swan penwork followed a particular style. Both seem correct for your sitar. The carving is very similar, but varies slightly, which I think can be attributed to different time periods, and maybe different carvers. It seems to follow a similar overall design though. Shops had tracing patterns they would use to keep the shop carving similar.
I think yours was made in the 80s or 90s, and the other was made in the 2010 by Barun.

Photo 3 - The strike plate design is very similar in style and execution. They were made decades apart, so it is not surprising that they are a little different. Most shops had reference designs they used that would vary depending on the builder, and whoever did the penwork. The thumb rests are a little different, but that is not surprising either with different builders. (Hire Roy vs Himangshu vs Barun etc.). My Hiren Roy thumb rests are very different from either shown here. Mine are a little thinner and more delicate in style.

Photo 4 - Shows the full tabli comparison. There is a little difference, but pretty close generally. Some of the difference can be attributed to camera distortion from angle, etc. as well as who carved it. 

Photo 5 - This shows the design on the Gullu carving and celluloid work. They are a little different in carving style, but the overall design is very similar, again not surprising if carved by a different person. The celluloid work on the gullu is exactly the same.


So there it is.
As I said before, I am not an expert, but can still have an educated guess as to whether it is a Hiren Roy. From what I see, I think it is a genuine Hiren Roy. From the little details, apparent age, and how the small details compare to my Hiren Roy, I would guess that this sitar was built by Himangshu in the 90s. Himangshu ran the shop after his dad died.

I could be completely wrong, and welcome any additional opinions as to the authenticity of the sitar.
Nick, you may see me as a pest on your posts, but the truth is that although I am always skeptical, I was always hoping that you would find a real one.
I think you did.   [smile]


Nick-Hire-Roy-Ref-1.jpg 

Nick-Hire-Roy-Ref-2.jpg

Nick-Hire-Roy-Ref-3.jpg  Nick-Hire-Roy-Ref-4.jpg  Nick-Hire-Roy-Ref-5.jpg     


0
cwroyds

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,206
Reply with quote  #27 
As a final note from me, I don't think the other two are genuine. 
The second one just doesn't look right, especially the design of the swan and the carving. 
The third one (with the MOP) isn't correct in a lot of ways, and IMHO is in no way a Hiren Roy. 
As stated before, I could be wrong. 

One out of three ain't bad though. 
Hopefully you can find some more in the future. 
0
Nick Proctor

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 301
Reply with quote  #28 
BIG thanks for your 'approval' HA HA. Only kidding.

NO I DON'T see you as a pest , OFTEN' !!! HA HA.

As I've said a few times now - I'm NOT looking for a Hiren Roy but good sitars regardless of maker. You, however, seem obsessed with getting/having one ?!?!?

The two you posted, mine & the 'other' are almost exactly alike &, as I've said MINE is a wonderful instrument & one of my very best!!!

Thanks again!!!
0
cwroyds

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,206
Reply with quote  #29 
Glad you liked the review.
It was just fun to do the detective work. 
I like that sort of thing. 

Certainly a maker is not a guarantee of a great instrument, but it certainly doesn't hurt.
Why deny the joys of having cool things?
I love instruments, and fine instruments are even better,. 
The top makers are considered the best for a reason. 
Hiren Roy was an astoundingly gifted sitar maker, and his sons admirably carried on the tradition. 

I certainly admit to lusting for cool and interesting instruments.
I lust for a pristine Kanailal sitar, Kanailal Surbahar, and a Kanailal Rudra Veena. 
Why?  Because they are so freaking beautiful. 

Not every violin has to be a Stradivarius or Del Gesu, but I would certainly love to own one. 
I have an astounding mandolin, but I would love to own an early 1920s Gibson F5 signed by Lloyd Loar. 
Why? Because they are so freaking beautiful. 

I own a slew of great guitars including Stratocasters, Les Paul, and a variety of amazing acoustics.
My favorites are a 1948 Gibson L48, and a 1948 Gibson southern Jumbo that I bought from an ancient bluegrass player in the hills of Tennessee when I was 15. 

Instruments are the joys of my life. 
I love to examine them. 
I love to talk to knowledgeable people about them. 
I love to debate them. 

This is why I bother to care about whether an instrument is genuine.
It is not to acknowledge or deny the authenticity for the owner's sake. 
It is to honor the instrument itself, and the maker who built it. 
Or to honor a maker by denying an instrument that wrongly bears his name. 

It is the same with paintings attributed to great master painters. 
Some experts spend their lives studying paintings in order to gain the truth of their origins. 
It is fascination stuff. 

Then again I am a nerdy bore, so who cares what I think. 
It is all just interesting to me. 
Life is good if you have things that fascinate you. 
Otherwise everything is a bore. 
0
cwroyds

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,206
Reply with quote  #30 

And stop saying you don't care if it is a Hiren Roy or not. 
It just doesn't ring true. 
If you didn't care, you wouldn't always post them here asking if they are genuine. 
You know good and well it interests you too, and when you find out they are real it gives you warm fuzzies. 

I don't think that is the only thing that matters to you, as you also love the lowly ones that are just cool and interesting. 
It isn't a shameful thing to be looking for a treasured jewel in the sitars out there. 
It is a fantastic pursuit, and the rewards are having very cool instruments, and going on adventures to find them. 

How cool is it that you get to live your life occasionally going to India in search for cool sitars. 
Who else gets to do that?
Delight in it, and accept the fact that you want to find those rare Hiren Roys and Kanailals that are hidden out there.
Recently you have found a Hiren Roy, and I believe an older Kanailal sound mouth sitar.
How cool is that!!

Alright, I am done. 
I will go bore my partner.  😉

0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.