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Nick Proctor

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Reply with quote  #1 
Saw this on UK gumtree.

https://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/1970s-hiren-roy-sitar/1358482737?utm_source=salesforce&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Search_Alert&utm_content=EMAIL_ALERTS_SINGLE_TRACK_NONMARKETING&fbclid=IwAR0f8QRv18-AJ4MBZt0Von1hjGGVfQFYfrATflBGttwOWgmCgwQTbasILow


Sent this to seller on the ad. Shitar 1.png  Shitar 2.png  Shitar 3.png  Shitar 4.png  Shitar 5.png  Shitar 6.png 
Sorry but this sitar is in appalling condition. Have you tried to learn on this? If so then no wonder you gave up. The bridge is in terrible neglected condition & there's been some awful 'respray' job on the front. Horrible. Sorry. Nick

Watcha all feel about this then?

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barend

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Reply with quote  #2 
That string angle of the main string at the nut worries me....
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Lars

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Reply with quote  #3 
The string angle is just that it's not in the hole in the upper nut. Sitar is an original, bridge is not. It looks like one of those setups from that clown in Delhi who sells old instruments. How the swans fall out I don't know, I've never seen that happen so that's new. Looks like a lot of work but could be worth it......
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barend

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Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars
The string angle is just that it's not in the hole in the upper nut. ..


Shouldn't the string slots of both top nuts be more in line? I think one of them is not original. Even when the string is attached the right way there is still too much angle. Also the other slots don't match either. Or do mean the string isn't pushed all the way down in the slot? The string is also crooked by the way. I wouldn't pay more than 500$ for it.
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Nick Proctor

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Reply with quote  #5 
EXCELLENT posts from both of you on this. I thought exactly the same about the top nut too.
One of them must've been replaced at some time, no? and never put 'right'??!??!
It's still a bloody awful mess but salvageable, eh?

If he'd wanted around the £400 mark I might well have had a few words but £700?!?!?!?!?!?!??!
No Chance!!!!

BTW Please PM me as to who that Delhi clown is. PLEASE ?!?!?!
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barend

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Proctor
Please PM me as to who that Delhi clown is. PLEASE ?!?!?!


https://www.india.com/buzz/this-man-was-greeted-by-pennywise-the-clown-from-the-movie-it-at-a-theater-and-twitterati-is-totally-spooked-2466808/


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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #7 
It certainly is not in prime condition, but the fixes look pretty minor. 
Replacing the Taar Gahan / Nut is no big deal, but has to be done. 
That wonky angle of the string through the nut is really bad. 
Everything else looks like cosmetic issues, like the swans, and the tabli finish. 

It looks like the tabli might have been refinished at some point. 
It looks splotchy and a bit rough.
I bet that faded penwork around the tabli came from scraping the stray varnish off after refinish. 
It is a shame because that tabli carving is quite lovely. 

Not sure how you would fix the tabli swans.
It looks to me that they didn't fall out. 
I think they refinished the tabli, and while sanding they removed all of the coloring.
If you look close you can see the carved lines that used to be filled with color.
Oddly, it looks like they touched it up with liquid paper, or some white goop. 
Definitely unsightly. 
Maybe they could be redone in place. 
If I am wrong, and they did fall out, maybe a luthier could cut some MOP to fit. 
Wouldn't be ideal, but certainly better than the way it looks now. 

It was once a proud Hiren Roy #2.
Now it is a bit worse for wear, BUT could easily be put right. 
If it is structurally sound, the price is not too far out, but I would haggle for a couple hundred off for repairs needed. 
Could be a really nice player if given to a good luthier. 
If it sounds good, and the neck isn't warped, it would probably be a really good instrument for someone who cant afford a pristine HR. 

It is a good example showing that even a Hiren Roy in rough shape is easily identifiable as Hiren Roy. 
The quality of its past shows through the goo. 
It is sad that it wasn't treated better during its life. 
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Nick Proctor

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Reply with quote  #8 
Great post but could you tell me around what kind of price are we looking at for a 'ready for stage' HR?

N
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #9 
I am not an expert on the price of sitars, but here are my guesstimates from what I have seen.
Lars and others could have a better view of sitar prices.

Hard to say, as it depends on model, condition, age, and who made it. 
Is it is #1, #2, or #3?
Is it pristine, honestly worn from play, or beaten up but still in stage ready playing condition?
What vintage is it, and who made it?  (Hiren Roy, Himangshu, or Barun)
All of these things would effect the price. 

A pristine vintage HR instrument can fetch a lot of money. 
Well cared for vintage ones by Hiren Roy himself can fetch $3,000-$4,000, and are well worth it. 
Below that there are a wide variety of prices for Hiren Roys. 

Personally, I think even the most modest level Hiren Roy shouldn't be below $1,400, if it is in good stable condition. 
You regularly find various models for sale from $1,800-$2,500.
Most of the ones that go above that are fine upper level models. 

They are pricey, as sitars go, but Hiren Roy was the top sitar maker of the second half of the 20th century. 
They made the finest sitars available, and were the instrument of choice of most professional sitarists, most notable being Nikhil Banerjee. 
There were other very fine makers, but Hiren Roy was generally a step above. 

I have played a lot of different Hiren Roys, and although a few are a bit thunky, most are very fine sitars, and a good number are truly stunning. 
The early ones made by Hiren Roy himself tend to be very very good indeed, some are sublime. 
Himangshu made beautiful sitars, although I have only played a couple, including my own.
Barun makes beautiful sitars too, although I have found some are very heavy builds and have to be struck hard for optimum tone. Some are very dark in tone. 
Hiren Roy built instruments take to top prices, but Himangshu and Barun top models can get similar prices, depending on the instrument, and what the buyer is willing to pay for it. 

Of course you can occasionally find super deals online, usually when the seller doesn't really know what they have. 
I found my Hiren Roy on craigslist for $500.
The owner didn't really know about sitars and had it in a closet collecting dust for 20 years
In the post they commented about missing strings and that it was in bad condition. 
The truth was that all it needed was a good clean and restringing. 
It turned out to be a real stunner Burma teak sitar by Himangshu. 
Everyone who plays it loves it, and I've had pros try to convince me to sell it to them. 
I will never sell, as I have never played a Hiren Roy I liked better. 
It is a simple design, but such a great instrument. 
Super easy to play, and a loud bright shimmering tone.
If I had to sell it, I certainly wouldn't take below $2000. 

I am sure you have seen mine many times, but here is the link for those who haven't. 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/carletonroyds/sets/72157620484854523/?view=md

Even though they are expensive compared to other sitars, they should be even more if compared to other instrument prices. 
Guitars are regularly more expensive for far more simple builds. 
A professional level mandolin starts at about $5,000, and go up to $24,000 for a Gilchrist, Nugget, Etc.
Vintage Lloyd Loar signed early 1920s Gibson F5 mandolins go for $80,000-$160,000.
Violins are outrageously high, with fine instruments ranging from $15,000-Multiple Millions.
Your average professional violin Bow will be more than the most expensive Vintage Hiren Roy.

Point is, even though expensive in the context of sitars, they are actually an absolute bargain as fine professional instruments go.
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Nick Proctor

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Reply with quote  #10 
MMM Thanks for that.
Wonder what MY HRs are worth.?!?!?
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #11 
If they are a genuine Hiren Roy, their worth depends on the criteria listed above. (Age, Condition, Maker, Model level, etc.)
You have a lot of sitars with HR badges, but have any been confirmed to be genuine?
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Nick Proctor

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Reply with quote  #12 
NO PROBS at all ??!?!? I know what mine are so your point is well raised - none of this matters as I've said MANY TIMES BEFORE ??!!?

I've NEVER bought an instrument based on a name-plate - NEVER. If I like the sitar I buy it. 
Some think I just see a sitar & buy it. NOT the case. Nearly as many are still where they were - HONEST ha ha. If I like it & it plays well, I take it, simples.

I don't particularly care what some think about what I do, NOT aimed at YOU, honest?!?!? ha ha.

It's been said a few times about me bringing out 'old' sitars back into the fold so to speak. I just feel it's my duty to do this & not to, literally sit on my arse & twinkle away on one or 2 all my life.

(I know this post will not sit well with you, but there it is.)

There was no need to edit your post!!! I still have the full one on my email !!!!
Still have the EVIDENCE ?!?!? HA HA.
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Nick Proctor

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Reply with quote  #13 
THESE???? HIREN ROY BEST (1).jpg  HIREN ROY BEST (2).jpg  HIREN ROY BEST (4).jpg  HIREN ROY BEST (6).jpg  HIREN ROY BEST (7).jpg  20190703_155245.jpg  20190703_155254.jpg  20190703_155306.jpg  20190703_155310.jpg  20190703_155324.jpg  20190703_155344.jpg  Hiren Roy (1).jpg  Hiren Roy (2).jpg  Hiren Roy (4).jpg  Hiren Roy (6).jpg  Hiren Roy (7).jpg  Hiren Roy (8).jpg 
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #14 
LOL. Busted on that for sure.   😉

I edited it because I wrote that post when I was in a pissy mood about something totally unrelated from my day, and reading it back, I didn't much like my tone, or at least the way it read. I meant it to be fairly straight forward, but it came off being a little too pointy. It didn't seem kind, and didn't really say what I wanted to say. 
I apologize for the tone. The revised post was more in line with what I meant to say. 

You had asked what you Hiren Roys are worth. 
My point was, which ones are you referring to?
I have seen a ton of different sitars from you, and I honestly don't know which ones you considered genuine.  

I cant speak for the value of the ones that are not Hiren Roys, but have an HR badge. 
They are worth what a buyer will pay for an interesting anonymous maker sitar. 

A genuine Hiren Roy can be given a reasonable estimate of value based on the criteria stated previously. 
If you post a few photos of the genuine HR ones you have, a reasoned value can be suggested for them. 
I would like to see anyway. 
I always like to see photos of cool sitars. 



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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #15 
You posted photos before I was able to finish typing. 
I have seen all of those for sure.
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