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Off Topic: Setar or Tanbur - alternate names for the same? GENERAL DISCUSSIONS
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184 posts alam123 184 posts
alam123
mashallah! you explained that very nicely!
http://mehfiltube.magnify.net/
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alam123 184 posts
alam123
I am not sure if Tanbur or Tunbur is identical to Setar, or maybe they call Setar - Tanbur in Dari speaking areas? Anyone know?
This definitely looks like a candidate for Sitar ancestry:
http://mehfiltube.magnify.net/video/Gholam-Bahauddin-Tanbur-Recital
http://mehfiltube.magnify.net/
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povster Senior Member 2,537 posts
povster
alam123 wrote:
I am not sure if Tanbur or Tunbur is identical to Setar, or maybe they call Setar - Tanbur in Dari speaking areas? Anyone know?
This definitely looks like a candidate for Sitar ancestry:
http://mehfiltube.magnify.net/video/Gholam-Bahauddin-Tanbur-Recital
You are right - it certainly looks like the 19th and early 20th century sitars. Excellent link! The right hand movement is most intriquing!

Abnother cool link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFHZ-nRJQ3Y
...Michael
Dasani - the official bottled water of ICM
Panini - the official sandwich of ICM
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trippy monkey 4,281 posts
trippy monkey
Can we, for sure, say how old THIS instrument is, to compare it with the original sitar from, say, the 15th century???

Nick
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jaan e kharabat 1,401 posts
jaan e kharabat
alam123 wrote:
I am not sure if Tanbur or Tunbur is identical to Setar, or maybe they call Setar - Tanbur in Dari speaking areas? Anyone know?
This definitely looks like a candidate for Sitar ancestry:
http://mehfiltube.magnify.net/video/Gholam-Bahauddin-Tanbur-Recital
The Persian setar and tambur are two different instruments. The Persian setar does not exist in Afghanistan anymore, though similar instruments like the tambur or dotar are popular. Afghans know the sitar as the south Asian version.

As for the origins of Indian instruments, there's no doubt that many of them derive at least their name from Afghan prototypes such as the tambur, sorood etc, and perhaps also their actual form. But most have been so substantially modified that they bear little resemblance to current instruments.
If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
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jaan e kharabat 1,401 posts
jaan e kharabat
trippy wrote:
Can we, for sure, say how old THIS instrument is, to compare it with the original sitar from, say, the 15th century???

Nick
How do you know that the sitar is from the 15th Century? I doubt very much that the sitar is that old. Yes there are legends ascribing its invention to Amir Khusro (died 14th Century) but then the tabla's invention is also purported to be his with very little evidence to support either case.
If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
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alam123 184 posts
alam123
jaan wrote:

The Persian setar and tambur are two different instruments. The Persian setar does not exist in Afghanistan anymore, though similar instruments like the tambur or dotar are popular. Afghans know the sitar as the south Asian version.
Thank you jaan-e-khabarat!
http://mehfiltube.magnify.net/
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Sazenda 35 posts
Sazenda
povster wrote:
You are right - it certainly looks like the 19th and early 20th century sitars. Excellent link! The right hand movement is most intriquing!
This right hand movement has certainly been influenced by the afghani rabab technic in the middle on the 20th century. This tanbur player called Bahauddin was in touch with a famous local rabab player known as Ustad Mohammad Omar who largely developped the technic of his instrument. No doupt Bahauddin did the same on his side. I've read somewhere (but never seen it) that afghani tanbur players used to pluck from down to up whereas it the contrary on the video posted by Alam 123. At that time such musicians in Afghanistan where kind of pioneers. A very interesting video indeed !
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trippy monkey 4,281 posts
trippy monkey
Jaan Bhai
Are you suggesting the sitar is only a very recent invention????
As we have it now , I would agree but how far back can we trace it in a similar form it has now??

Nick
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trippy monkey 4,281 posts
trippy monkey
Re Amir Khusrao
It seems there were TWO at around the same time. OOPSSS!!!

Nick
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jaan e kharabat 1,401 posts
jaan e kharabat
trippy wrote:
Jaan Bhai
Are you suggesting the sitar is only a very recent invention????
As we have it now , I would agree but how far back can we trace it in a similar form it has now??

Nick
I doubt a sitar in any significant way resembling the current one in terms of form and playing technique is older than two or three centuries, max.
If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
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jaan e kharabat 1,401 posts
jaan e kharabat
trippy wrote:
Re Amir Khusrao
It seems there were TWO at around the same time. OOPSSS!!!

Nick
Well, not exactly. The second one seems to have lived a couple of hundred years after the first, more famous one.
If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
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trippy monkey 4,281 posts
trippy monkey
Where would be a good place on the net to find out more about them both as comparison?

Nick
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trippy monkey 4,281 posts
trippy monkey
As we all know how 'varied' Indian history can be, it's quite possible some 'interchanging' has ocurred.
MAYBE?!?!?!

Nick
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jaan e kharabat 1,401 posts
jaan e kharabat
trippy wrote:
As we all know how 'varied' Indian history can be, it's quite possible some 'interchanging' has ocurred.
MAYBE?!?!?!

Nick
It's not just possible, it's a certain fact.
If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
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jaan e kharabat 1,401 posts
jaan e kharabat
trippy wrote:
Where would be a good place on the net to find out more about them both as comparison?

Nick
I don't recall where I read about the second chap, whether it was on the net or in a book but the famous material on Amir Khusro can be easily found through the trusty google search.
If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
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