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My jolly ol' sitar MELODIC INSTRUMENTS
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Senior Member 2,537 posts povster Senior Member 2,537 posts
povster
DayLight wrote:
Yeah, I feel a bit silly, i should try and move the frets back...
And as for the sympathetic bridge position, does it matter too much? Since they're not fretted. i'd imagine that it just needs to be in that general area with the strings in tune, right?
The position of the sympathetic bridge does matter. Relatively small changes in position can make a real difference in the response. But to my thinking it is the bridge that should be adjusted after the main bridge. Don't go by how it looks but by how it sounds.
...Michael
Dasani - the official bottled water of ICM
Panini - the official sandwich of ICM
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DayLight 12 posts
DayLight
A friend of mine gave me a sitar for christmas, missing several parts, which I have now purchased, from the Ali Akbar store in San Refael, it's a great store!. I was missing both bridges, a sympathetic peg, two main pegs, the chikiari posts, and all tuning beads(i know i'm using the western words for the parts, and you sitar people like the indian words, but oh well). In a few weeks I will be paying a woman in Berkeley to teach me to string it, but I need to fit the parts to the instrument, and I need some advice on it. I am wondering:
-What is the general length of chikari posts? One of mine is 1 3/4 inches and the other is 1 1/2 inches. They have no groove for a string in the top, and I assume they need one?
-Do I need tuning beads at the top of the instrument? the picture on this ebay sitar has them(http://cgi.ebay.com/Professional-Quality-Sitar-plus-case-and%20videos_W0QQitemZ170076391041QQihZ007QQcategoryZ308QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem), but I have never seen this before.
-How should I fit the sympathetic bridge to the instrument? I'm just using a wood rasp and sandpaper for the other bridge, but since the sympathetic bridge is not wood, I'm not sure what to use.

I think that's all for now, but I'll post more if more problems arise.[/url]
I have this sitar, you see, and it crawls to my sister's bed at night, bringing with it lungs of the sun, her extra fingers grow.
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Sitarfixer Senior Member 1,937 posts
Sitarfixer
Hi. The chikari post length varies a little between one instrument to the next. Yours sound about right. The longer one will be positioned in the spot closer to the bridges. A slot will need to be cut. Your best bet for that is to get an X-acto razor saw from Michaels craft shop (they're all over the place). The two beads up on the headstock are a nice tuning extra hand. Not required but highly recommended. Bridge legs, both wood and bone (horn) can be filed with a medium flat or 1/2 round file. Go easy!!!
http://www.karaseksound.com/
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beenkar 394 posts
beenkar
"I have this sitar, you see, and it crawls to my sister's bed at night, bringing with it lungs of the sun, her extra fingers grow."

Vey nice. You are certainly going to succeed in your endeavours!!
रंग भरयौ मुसकात लला निकस्यौ कल कुंजन ते सुखदाई
टूटि गयो घर को सब बंधन छूटि गौ आरज- लाज- बड़ाई
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DayLight 12 posts
DayLight
thanks sitarfixer!
About the chikari posts, how far should they(on average, I know it varies between instruments) portrude from the neck? Mine portrude almost the full length of the post, and in most pictures I have seen, though it is hard to find a clear picture of the chikari posts, they look much shorter.

And my sig, I don't know if it exactly means sucess, but thaks...
I was thinking about adding onto it. What's the maximum signiture size 'round these parts?
I have this sitar, you see, and it crawls to my sister's bed at night, bringing with it lungs of the sun, her extra fingers grow.
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Sitarfixer Senior Member 1,937 posts
Sitarfixer
Thing with chikari posts - they have to be a rock solid fit in the neck. Any wobble or loosness will mean a dramatic loss of sound quality and volume. String tension alone is not enough. The post should stick into the neck somewhere around 3/8" on average. Another point to consider - if the post location sits over one of the taraf pegs, make sure the hole for that post doesn't allow taht post to go on down and into the side of the peg shaft. I've seen countless pegs here with a partly drilled hole from where the sloppy worker drilled the peg hole and went right into the peg underneath. Overall peg height - it should be of a height where the string on top is in alignment with the rest of the top strings. This also makes the jawari job go a lot easier. Sounds like you're going to have a lot of good times putting that sitar back together. Stringing it is the easy part once you get the loop trick figured out.
http://www.karaseksound.com/
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DayLight 12 posts
DayLight
Thanks you once more. As for the sympathetic pegs, does the hole that the string goes through need to be exactly under the fitting on the neck, or can the allignment be a little off? And how much friction should the pegs have? A few of mine are a bit loose. I srung a banjo string onto the sitar(on the sympathetic peg, then put the string over the frets and onto the main bridge, as the sympathetic bridge is not fitted to my sitar, and I need to cut deeper grooves for the strings), and sometimes I could get OK string tension and get some sound from it, but often the peg would lose friction and the string would loose all its tension. This might be that I did not string it in the proper way(put a sympathetic over the frets and on the main bridge) or that my pegs don't have enough friction. What do you think?
I have this sitar, you see, and it crawls to my sister's bed at night, bringing with it lungs of the sun, her extra fingers grow.
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Sitarfixer Senior Member 1,937 posts
Sitarfixer
Welcome back! The hole with the eyelet above each taraf peg doesn't absolutely have to be above each peg, though that sure would be nice. As long as these holes aren't ahead of the peg, you should be ok. If that wire has to bend more (less) than 90 degrees, as in acute angle, then there will be all kinds of unnecessary strain on that poor eyelet. Check those eyelets or solid bits (preferred) and see if you can round the slot if possible. That will increase string life significantly. Tell me the taraf strings are under the frets and not on top of the frets ! ! ! Peg friction - a very very little bit of sandpaper on the peg shafts where they contact the neck wall will produce a noticable improvement.
http://www.karaseksound.com/
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element-82 317 posts
element-82
Hi,
that won't work. The symps. have to go under the frets, from the peg through the little bone holds on the neck and onto a small bridge, then tie to the langot (thing on the base). You might want to order some proper string from fortepiano.com or sitarsetc or someone else. The symps are a smaller gauge (I don't know what the banjo is).

Sounds like you are having fun there.

Pb
DayLight wrote:
Thanks you once more. As for the sympathetic pegs, does the hole that the string goes through need to be exactly under the fitting on the neck, or can the allignment be a little off? And how much friction should the pegs have? A few of mine are a bit loose. I srung a banjo string onto the sitar(on the sympathetic peg, then put the string over the frets and onto the main bridge, as the sympathetic bridge is not fitted to my sitar, and I need to cut deeper grooves for the strings), and sometimes I could get OK string tension and get some sound from it, but often the peg would lose friction and the string would loose all its tension. This might be that I did not string it in the proper way(put a sympathetic over the frets and on the main bridge) or that my pegs don't have enough friction. What do you think?
Surbahar Dude (formerly Sitar Dude)
http://sitarplayer.net
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DayLight 12 posts
DayLight
I know where the sympathetic strings and everything go, I have seen and played sitars before, and have done quite a bit of research into the setup and everything. I just wanted to get some string on there and hear how my sitar sounded. The banjo string was to short to go from one of the main pegs to the bottom of the instrument, so I put on on one of the lower sympathetic pegs and put it over the fret instead of under, don't quite know why though. Maybe I should ask more clearly:
Did putting the string on in that manner put more pressure on the sympathetic peg and cause it to slip, or do I need to increase the friction?

Thanks!

And element, I already have strings, they're just not on yet 'cause I'm waiting for lessons on how to string it.
I have this sitar, you see, and it crawls to my sister's bed at night, bringing with it lungs of the sun, her extra fingers grow.
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Sitarfixer Senior Member 1,937 posts
Sitarfixer
If I still remember, that sitar book by Harihar Rao had a page or two with pictures on how to string a sitar. There are some charts on the websites as well with this info.
http://www.karaseksound.com/
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sita'dam 48 posts
sita'dam
http://www.silverbushmusic.com/stringtie.html#anchor26644

some stringing and other info.
btw. wouldn't stringing it in the way u described put allot of pressure on the fret and bend it? (unless it is tied very strong)

enjoy!
ben
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DayLight 12 posts
DayLight
I strung the sitar, but one chikiari and the lowest gague bronze string broke the first time I tried to tune them! They were put on and tuned fine, but the first time I tried to tune them, they broke! I am now hesitant to tune the instrument at all, due to my being flat broke and having no money to buy new strings. Is this common, or is there a method to tuning the instrument, because I am mad as hell at the store that sold me these strings. And could someone tell me the gagues of the main strings? I am going to just buy wire in bulk from the hardware store so I have alot of string.
I have this sitar, you see, and it crawls to my sister's bed at night, bringing with it lungs of the sun, her extra fingers grow.
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Sitarfixer Senior Member 1,937 posts
Sitarfixer
Go easy on the store that sold you the strings. It's good that they even stock an item like this - period. Aside from the previously mentioned features to inspect, it sunds like you just plain cranked those strings too tight. Basic rule - always twang the string being tuned so you can hear at the moment if you've overshot the intended not. With gear tuners, the process is smoother and slower. With friction pegs, one good twist of the wrist and you've gained 4 -5 notes up the scale. Go easy. I broke a few strings starting out this way as we all have, I'm sure. You're in Calif, you lucky devil!!! There should be no truble digging up a fellow / ette with a sitar you can glean info from. Press on!
http://www.karaseksound.com/
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DayLight 12 posts
DayLight
Sitarfixer wrote:
Go easy on the store that sold you the strings. It's good that they even stock an item like this - period.
I don't know... I bought them from The Bazzar of India Imports in Berkeley, and they are an Indian music shop, complete with rebabs, sarangis, dilruba, gopichand, etc. It seems requisite for a store like that to carry sitar strings. The statement you made would be true if I had bought them from a store that deals in western music, but an Indian music shop carrying sitar strings seems about as commonplace as a pregnant mother carrying her child. And yes, I have noticed that living in California is perhaps one of my greatest assets in learning to play and fixing my sitar. The Ali Akbar store is a few hours drive for me, and that is where I will go to buy sitar acsessories in the future. And as for digging up a sitarist, Joanna Mack was the one who helped me string it, and I will continue to ask her questions, and get lessons in the future.
I have this sitar, you see, and it crawls to my sister's bed at night, bringing with it lungs of the sun, her extra fingers grow.
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David Russell Watson Senior Member 362 posts
David Russell Watson
DayLight wrote:
an Indian music shop carrying sitar strings seems about as commonplace as a pregnant mother carrying her child.
and
DayLight wrote:
I have this sitar, you see, and it crawls to my sister's bed at night, bringing with it lungs of the sun, her extra fingers grow.
My goodness but you have a unique way with words, Daylight!

Slightly disturbing? Yes, but certainly unique. :wink:
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