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musicslug

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Reply with quote  #1 
when I went to my lesson today, my teacher had Westsea's (formerly Thomas Marcotty's) vina in for jawari - I had to take a picture of the ultimate vina porn...

in front: vintage 60's (?)

in back: vintage 70's, with X-lg tumbas from Miraj

middle: late 1990's, after Kanailal and Brother closed and Murari was making vinas under his nameMurari's children.jpg 

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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #2 
Wow. So cool.
That Marcotty Vina is da bomb.
I have some detail shots from Westsea.
http://gallery.mac.com/carletonroyds#100165
Insanely beautiful instrument.

The others look beautiful as well.
Got to love groups of instruments.
It is fun to see them all at once so you can see the differences in size, setup, etc.

I had the pleasure of visiting a sitar collector recently and worked my way through about 15 Rikhi Ram sitars.
They ranged in age from the earliest RR sitars from Lahore up to a modern studio sitar.
There is nothing like being surrounded by a slew of sitars.
The variety from this one maker was stunning.
I have to say that having seen sitars from every stage of their history, I have to reject the notion that RR sitars are lacking.
Every one of these sitars had something to say, and every one was a fine piece of workmanship.
I am sure they traded in shite sitars for tourists, but the true Rikhi Ram Sitars can rank up there with the best.

I had to take some iPhone shots.
Unfortunately I only remembered to take pictures at the end so many had already been put away.
http://gallery.mac.com/carletonroyds#100215

Thanks for the Vina Porn.
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westsea

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "cwroyds"
Wow. So cool.
That Marcotty Vina is da bomb.
I have some detail shots from Westsea.
http://gallery.mac.com/carletonroyds#100165
Insanely beautiful instrument.
Carlton, those detail shots are a different veena. Both were owned by Marcotty
and they do look similar (both insanely beautiful).
I'm told that Marcotty said the one in this photo was his best (of at least 4 Murari veenas).
This one was the last one Marcotty sold.
More photos of it are here:
http://www.rudraveena.org/after2.html

I'm also told that Marcotty said Murari built this one in the early '70's.
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #4 
Wow, how great it must feel to own TWO of those monsters.
I looked at the pictures you just linked to, and they are interestingly similar in design.
I LOVE the thick carving.
Could not be nicer instruments.
You sir are a lucky lucky man to have instruments like that.
Thanks for the correction.
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westsea

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "cwroyds"
Wow, how great it must feel to own TWO of those monsters.
Thanksgiving Day, here in the USA, is coming up... Thursday, November 26.
For me, having these two instruments, Thanksgiving Day is every day.
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Surbaharplayer

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Reply with quote  #6 
Wow!!! amazing gathering!! Just curious: have you played all of them to compare the sound? I'm curious if the difference in tumba-size and ornamentation have an impact on the sound? Also is there a difference in feel (string-tension) when you compare the dragon-headstock to the straight headstock?
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musicslug

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Reply with quote  #7 
hi Remco,

I have played all 3, although it's not a perfectly controlled experiment because westsea's vina had just had its jawari done and its sound will change a bit as it settles in.

that being said, Jeff pretty much has a 'target' sound when he does vina jawari, specifically Z.M.Dagar's vina's sound. consequently that does make the comparison easier since jawari has such a huge impact on the sound.

I have put Jeff's huge Miraj tumbas on my vina and it completely changed the sound, mostly for the better, but I thought that my original tumbas sounded more integrated - my vina sounded like the tumbas had their own personality when I put Jeff's on, and that sense is absent when my own tumbas are on.

as far as westsea's compares, it has a smaller dand and smaller tumbas, yet Jeff was able to get the sound remarkably close to its larger cousins (brothers?). time will tell - it will definitely change to some degree as it's played in the coming days and weeks - but my impression was that there was less 'body' on the smaller vina, especially on the main string. I was stunned at how good Jeff got the other strings to sound though.

as far as the 'feel' of the traditional (straight peg-head) vs. Dagar-style, the main thing is the weight: westsea's vina probably weigh's 70% of what Jeff's does, and 60% what mine does - needless to say, that feels different!

as far as string tension goes, I didn't notice anything obvious, but perhaps that was due to how different the weight felt, obscuring any differences in that area.

and - just to complicate matters - you have to keep in mind that Jeff's and my bridges are plastic and westsea's is antler, no small matter, sound-wise.

a true comparison would require that westsea get a plastic bridge and play for a few months (at least), but, in the meantime, the family resemblance is very much in evidence!

hope that helps.

Daniel
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Sitarfixer

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Reply with quote  #8 
Interesting stuff - the comparisons. The porn - Oh Baby ! That's some serious wanking material. TNX ! ! !
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westsea

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Surbaharplayer"
Wow!!! amazing gathering!! Just curious: have you played all of them to compare the sound? I'm curious if the difference in tumba-size and ornamentation have an impact on the sound? Also is there a difference in feel (string-tension) when you compare the dragon-headstock to the straight headstock?
musicslug would be the expert able to answer this.

To see a solo photo of the middle veena (as well as hear it!), go to
http://www.rudraveena.org/daniel.html
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #10 
http://www.rudraveena.org has some cool stuff in there.
I love the video of Scott Hackleman demonstrating the "Shiva" veena he made for Vilayat Inayat Khan.
He told me the whole story of how that came to be while he did my Jawari on his last trip to LA.
It is fascinating if you enjoy instruments and their construction.
I would love to hear a Beenkar play this instrument.

http://www.rudraveena.org/vilayat.html
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