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Kaushiki / Kaunsi Kanada GENERAL DISCUSSIONS
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Senior Member 749 posts Kirya Senior Member 749 posts
Kirya
I have live concert recordings by Nikhil Banerjee of

1985 Kaunsi Kannada (almost 80 minutes long) and

a 1977 DLMC Concert of Rag Kaushiki that is almost 100 minutes long

They are quite different even though have similarities, I do not have the musical knowledge to be able to describe the differences in way that might be more useful to others.

If you can get access to these recordings and you listen I think you will see that at least for Nikhil the two were quite different and distinct.
Kirya in CA
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ragamala Senior Member 1,744 posts
ragamala
Can anyone please help me understand the difference between these two ragas?

I have looked up various sources, web and otherwise, but have found nothing to solve this for me, particularly in pinning down Kaushiki.
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jaan e kharabat 1,401 posts
jaan e kharabat
From what I have heard and read, Kaunsi Kanada is a combo of Malkauns and Darbari Kanada.

In its simplest form, Malkauns dominates in aroh and Darbari in avroh. Things are probably not as simple as that in most performances. I heard Shruti Sadolikar Katkar perform this raga live and although she went along the lines already described in establishing the bandish, as the elaboration got into full swing, her improv's would be in Malkauns for an avartan, then in Darbari in the next. At times it was Darbari in the first half and then Malkauns in the next half. So she basically mixed and matched.

I don't know much about raga Kaushiki nor have I heard many items in it. From what I gather, it is also Malkauns in aroh and sampoorn in avroh but there are no Darbari elements in it. It is rather like sampoorn Malkauns where the pa and re come into play in descent. Kishori Amonkar has recorded sampoorn Malkauns. So no Kanada phrases such as S" d n P, M g M S R, S or d' n' R g, M R S. Instead rather straight descending lines.
If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
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trippy monkey 4,281 posts
trippy monkey
There's a little bit of Kaushiki played by Taro Tarahara on bansuri with Shen Flindell as part of the Ashu Babu Memorial Concert I videod in Varanasi earlier this year.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=9004086733240356916&hl=en-GB

Nick
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ragamala Senior Member 1,744 posts
ragamala
Many thanks for the replies.

I will try and get a bit of listening work done and see if that all makes sense.

Kaunsi Kanada I have sort of got a grip on but Kaushiki is one of those things it's easier to say what it isn't than what it is, it seems to me.
But at least that helps me in differentiating between Kaunsi Kanada and Kaushiki, even if that leads on to finding the difference between the latter and Sampurna Malkauns.

Isn't ICM an intriguing subject? Always something new to learn.
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Aanaddha 1,932 posts
Aanaddha
See Parrikars take at: http://www.sawf.org/newedit/edit09162002/musicarts.asp - if you haven't already. :wink:
If he could sing, and nature to accompany him, what need would he have for an instrument?
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ragamala Senior Member 1,744 posts
ragamala
unfortunately Parrikar (often a first choice for reference on the web outside books) doesn't give a lot of lead on this, particularly on kaushiki, where he jumbles it with sampurna kanada, pancham kauns etc.

Many thanks A for the ref, though, the whole site is certainly a great fount of knowledge, whatever you think of the attitude.
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Kanti Dattani 213 posts
Kanti Dattani
>>Sarod wrote
>>However his son AAshish Khan has recorded the rag Kaushiki....
>>I cant remember the name of the cd, but its publicly available

The CD is, NCCD0035, Peace and Joy, Music for Relaxation, Artiste Aashish Debsharma (formerly Aashish Khan) with Swapan on tabla. The Ragas are Darbari 27 min. (Alap only) and Kaushiki 28.40 min.
(Great CD, very good music and good recording)

This is the only recording of Raga Kaushiki I have. Are there any more?

Kaunsi Kanada
I have found the following information in some of the CD notes
Night Raag. Mix of Malkauns and Darbari (Kanhra)
Bhairavi Thaat
(Kafi thaat includes Kanada & Bageshri
Asavari thaat includes Malkauns & Kanada i.e. Darbari)
I have the following CDs

Abhijit Pohankar keyboard 50 minutes TDICL039C
Ali Akbar Khan 5 Worldly Music 7199-2
Bhatt VM 30 D4HI0588
Buddhadev Das gupta BMC 60 (CD awaited)
Dhruba Ghosh 57 IAM1039
Hariprasad Chaurasia 61 A98021 - 65 NI5182 (outstanding music, highly recommended) - 64 SWM023
Ghulam Mustafa 62 SWM049
Kiran Pal Santoor 65 DSAV1027
Niladri Kumar 62 NR141
Rajan and Sajan Misra 30 MCD191& 60 Veda CD Volume 7
Rashid Khan 43 S300042
Ravi Shankar 21 A91003
Sheila Dhar 39 C560017-18
Shivu Taralagatti sitar 22 CD 822882
Sridhar Krishnamurti 52 B6507 AV6507
Subroto Roy Choudhury 44 jp1022
Sultan Khan 25 SP83988 (SN83988) & 62 NR009
Ulhas Bapat 32 SR080
Vilayat Hussain 19 SVC126

Email kantidattani@aol.com for further information. I am not in music business and don't sell CDs. I understand CDs are cheaper in India and US. I am in UK.

Kanti Dattani
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sarod 43 posts
sarod
yeah the difference between Kaushiki and Kaushi Kannada has allways been a confusion for most of us.
according to Khansaab (ali akbar) there's no such thing as Kaushiki! its Kaushi Kannda.
However, However his son AAshish Khan has recorded the rag Kaushiki with Swapan Chaudhary. I cant remember the name of the cd, but its publicly available.
From what I hear they are very subtly apart. I'll try to find out exactly how they differ and post.
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sarod 43 posts
sarod
Hey Kanti
I just acquired what may be Kaushiki from Vasant Rai. There's a very nice woman Kay Norton, who was Vasantji and Nikhildas student back in the early seventies, and I've acquired a Kaushiki of Vasantjis. The recording is not the best quality, its one of those old sony tapes, so there's a hiss but the playing is out of the world. Kinda sounds like the old all india radio concerts from back in the day.I'm gonna try to post this
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Jeff Whittier 125 posts
Jeff Whittier
Actually, there are 3 rags with this scale, Kaushiki, Kaunsi Kanara, and Sampurna Malkauns. There is a nice recording of Lakshmi Shankar singing Sampurna Malkauns if you want to hear it. I've heard a few others too. Many Maihar musicians play Kaushiki, like the recording by Aashish already mentioned and most famously a bootleg of Annapurna playing it on surbahar.

The main difference between Kaushiki and Kaunsi Kanara is in the andolans and shrutis. They are taken more from Kanara rags in Kaunsi Kanara. Some people, including Annpurna and Ravi Shankar, use more obvious Kanara elements such as dnP & gmRS in Kaunsi Kanara, although Ali Akbar uses little of that and keeps his version of Kaunsi Kanara a little more like Bageshri Kanra. I have on tape somewhere a 78 rpm recording of a 1920's singer named Mohammed Hussain (not the Afghani) singing Kausi Kanara in a way almost identical to Ali Akbar's version, which made me realize that he wasn't just doing it his own way. Kaunsi Kanara is an important rag to Ali Akbar not just as part of his repertoire but also as a source rag for his Chandranandan, which borrows heavily from Kaunsi Kanara. There is also a commercial recording of Bahadur Khan playing Kaunsi Kanara which I happen to enjoy very much.

Sampurna Malkauns is Kaushiki-lite. Straight scale up and down, R & P added to Malkauns in descent.

There is of course, another Kaunsi Kanara which is in Kafi Thaat, but that's another story. There the question is, what's the difference between it and Bageshri Kanara.
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trippy monkey 4,281 posts
trippy monkey
AHHH !!!!!!!
Lakshmi Shankar & Sampoorna Malkauns.....

Gajra Kaise Varoon!!!!!

Nick
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ragamala Senior Member 1,744 posts
ragamala
Jeff wrote:
The main difference between Kaushiki and Kaunsi Kanara is in the andolans and shrutis. ...........

Sampurna Malkauns is Kaushiki-lite. Straight scale up and down, R & P added to Malkauns in descent.
Many thanks Jeff for this post.
I have a reasonable grip on Kaunsi Kanada and Sampurna Malkauns, but could you be a bit more specific please about the identifying characters of Kaushiki, which seems the least known and understood?
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Jeff Whittier 125 posts
Jeff Whittier
OK, let me put it this way. Kaushiki and Kaunsi Kanara have virtually the same scale, but the way the notes are approached is somewhat different. Especially in alap, the andolans (or gamaks) on each note are different. In Kaunsi Kanara, the andolans come from the Kanara rags, not necessarily Darbari which has its own unique andolans on Ga and Dha, but from say Abhogi Kanara on the note Ga and Adana (which is a Kanara rag) on Dha. It should be noted that these rags do not move in straight scale like Sampurna Malkauns, but permit certain phrases like "m-PgRRgm-"

The first Indian record which i ever owned, bought I think in 1967, was an LP of Sharan Rani playing Kaunsi Kanara. I don't have it any more, but as I remember the gat is exactly the same as the one Aashish uses in "Kaushiki". The next time I see him I'll ask him about that.

One of the back stories about these rags is that sometime around 1980 Annapurna put down her brother Ali Akbar (her own calipha) for playing Kaunsi Kanara "wrong." I have a live concert recording which I bought from AACM 20 years ago of a concert I attended in Mill Valley in the early 80's of Ali Akbar Khansahib playing Kaunsi Kanara soon after he returned from India after that exchange with his sister. He seems to be taking her criticism into account, because the way he plays the rag is not quite the same as his famous 45 RPM record which has been re-issued on CD. He's deliberately working in more dnP and gmRS than he used to. He taught us bandishes back in the day without these phrases, including one of my all-time favorites from him "Prabhu Tori Darasa Bina."

I think virtually everyone who uses the title "Kaushiki" received training from Annapurna. She is on record as telling her students that the rag on her famous bootleg is "Kaushiki" and not "Kaunsi Kanara." She certainly considers them different rags, and if you want to determine exactly what that rag is, I would suggest seeking out that bootleg.

Personally, I consider Annapurna to be a dangerous mind. She is so conservative that she seems to think that everything old is good, and anything new is bad. She apparently even put down her father for not playing exactly the same way Wazir Khan did - but as far as I know, she never heard Wazir Khan, he was dead before she was born I think, so her idea of how Wazir Khan played is all in her head. According to her model, nothing could ever improve. Her published biography is about the worst case of narcissistic sycophancy I've ever seen.

Since I heard that 1920's recording of Kaunsi Kanara by Mohammed Hussain (not the Afgani) I have come to the opinion that Ali Akbar's Kaunsi Kanara is right in the middle of the tradition for that rag and don't have any problem with it despite Annapurna's criticism. There is a commercial cassette of Ravi Shankar playing Kaunsi Kanara in Annapurna's extremely conservative model and frankly, I think it's boring compared to AAK's performances. I'm not sure as of this writing about the CD from Britain of a live performance with RS & Anoushka, as I tend to block out anything with Anoushka on it. I couldn't tell you if I like his playing on that one or not. But the older cassette of RS's Kaunsi Kanara is so correct it's boring - which I think is Annapurna's general tendancy. And I have total respect for RS, I'm the guy who thinks he's better than VK!
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ragamala Senior Member 1,744 posts
ragamala
Many thanks Jeff for that fascinating post.

It may be of interest-
Sharan Rani has a Kaunsi Kanada on music online
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/hindustani_instrumental/m/artist.2388/

If this is the same as my mp3 version I picked up some years ago (from a 60s lp "Lighter Touch" with Chatur Lal) it sounds to me a different gat from the Aashish Khan Kaushiki referred to earlier in this topic, but will have to recheck this.
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Jeff Whittier 125 posts
Jeff Whittier
I'm not getting that Sharan Rani link to play, even though "status" shows me everything is normal. I'm running Vista, so I'm probably screwed. Maybe I'm wrong about that gat - I'll check my Bahadur recording to see if that was it. I swear I heard it somewhere before called "Kaunsi Kanara" instead of "Kaushiki" but maybe I'm wrong.

I've been doing some more thinking about this, as it's a question of interest to me. Aki Akbar Khansahib's Kaunsi Kanara contains phrases like RndnRS which are totally Kanara and would not be found in Kaushiki. Also, his Kaunsi Kanara takes a few things from Bageshri Kanara, like a line which goes d-d-Pdnd- . If you change the d to D, you will see that the idea is from Bageshri and Bageshri Kanara. Also, a rag which is related to Kaunsi Kanara is Khansahib's Kaunsi Bhairavi, which contains exactly the same phrase m-PgRgPm- , done with exactly the same feelings. That phrase is sometimes used in Kaushiki, though AAK seems to use a different andolan on the final Pa in KK. Khansahib's beautiful image for Pa in Kaunsi Kanara is, "It's like the moon behind clouds, it comes out for a moment, and then it's gone."

Rajeev Taranath once had a cheap shot thrown at him by Prakash Wadhera, who was a cheap shot artist indeed. Kaunsi Bhairavi has the scale SgmdnS SndPmgRgrs and Rajeev played it in Delhi once. Wadhera asked him what the difference is between regular Bhairavi and Kaunsi Bhairavi, as that is also the scale generally recognized for regular Bhairavi. He then proceeded to put Rajeev down for not knowing the difference, when of course there are many differences which Rajeev had just performed, including the not inconsequential one that the tampura is tuned to Ma rather than Pa. The phrase noted above gives another difference, showing how the phrases resolve on Ma rather than Pa.

I've got a few Wadhera stories, but for another time........
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