Indian Music Forums

Kanailal & Brother Sitar MELODIC INSTRUMENTS
Reply
Junior Member 15 posts kelpo_eater Junior Member 15 posts
kelpo_eater

Hello Everyone,

I came across this Kanailal Brother Sitar via the local ebay/craigslist and thinking of buying/trading it.

The owner seems very trustworthy, still due to the recent Hemen Sarod „Fake“ I was looking at for a friend, I thought it wont harm to get your opinion. 

It has a very nice dark finish, and reminds me of the sitar U. Shahid Parvez Khan uses. I am currently waiting for a reply of a soundsample. The owner guesses the age as around 1970.

As always I look forward to your comments.  93B902CE-7149-4797-A4CD-E90254A5D297.png  7DFA60D6-B553-4DA0-8583-E33386C43C23.png  D46C1497-90C0-4A34-8893-3F5D8EC070F1.png 
Reply 0 0
cwroyds Senior Member 2,307 posts
cwroyds
No, no, no, no, no, and NOPE...
IMHO there is no way on earth that this is a Kanai Lal & Brother sitar. 
That is a common sitar with a KL badge slapped on it. 
Kanai Lal and Brother's craftsmanship was second to none. 
KL carving was very deep and thick, and their penwork was beautifully done.
I dont believe for a second that this came from their shop. 

I think I know where this one came from, but won't mention the name. 
Are you from England, by any chance?

Check out this link showing genuine KL&Bros sitars. 
Look at the quality and detail. 
Also check out the logo badges. 

https://www.vintagesitars.com/new-collection-19

The KL badges were hand scripted, and later stylized badges.
They certainly didn't look like the one on this sitar. 
See shots below.

Run, run, run, away from this sitar, especially if they are asking KL&Bros prices!!!!
Reply 3 0
Honey Member 86 posts
Honey
cwroyds wrote:
No, no, no, no, no, and NOPE...
IMHO there is no way on earth that this is a Kanai Lal & Brother sitar. 
That is a common sitar with a KL badge slapped on it. 
Kanai Lal and Brother's craftsmanship was second to none. 
KL carving was very deep and thick, and their penwork was beautifully done.
I dont believe for a second that this came from their shop. 

I think I know where this one came from, but won't mention the name. 
Are you from England, by any chance?

Check out this link showing genuine KL&Bros sitars. 
Look at the quality and detail. 
Also check out the logo badges. 

https://www.vintagesitars.com/new-collection-19


The KL badges were hand scripted, and later stylized badges.
They certainly didn't look like the one on this sitar. 
See shots below.

Run, run, run, away from this sitar, especially if they are asking KL&Bros prices!!!!
  He who must not be named! haha, actually managed to unintentionally buy a few actual real instruments from that person.There was alot of issues as i'm sure you might know. Random screws, random nails and random brackets, but under all that was an unlabeled Shermuhammad sold under a store name. Also got a 1970s real rikhiram from them whether they knew it or not.
Beenkar Student of Nasir Faridi Desai
Reply 0 0
kelpo_eater Junior Member 15 posts
kelpo_eater
Thats even more interesting now than the fake Hemen Sarod 😃

The seller is actually stated on a website as a repairer of Rudra Veenas, Sitars etc. Maybe he also doesnt know about it, or some shady stuff is going on here. I agree on the badge, thats why I asked here. Now my trust is really crushed ^^.

I am from germany, it was listed on the german ebay "craigslist". Its listed for slightly more than 1k€. I hesitate to send the link since I do not want to drag anyone into dirt without knowing if it is really a fake or not

Thanks anyways again for the quick replies.
Reply 0 0
Lars Senior Member 1,683 posts
Lars
It's fake. There's a small industry in Kolkata making these fake sitars and they are sold to various music shops. The way you tell on this one is there are 4 nails in the badge apart from the visuals. The originals were known by the fantastic detail in carving and penwork. Original 'fitting' however was usually quite poor and several people made them under this particular label after the original Kanai Lal died in the late 30's last century.
http://www.raincitymusic.com
Reply 1 0
katyrow Senior Member 447 posts
katyrow
Lars wrote:
It's fake. There's a small industry in Kolkata making these fake sitars


The worst offender is in Varanasi.  He re-badges old instrument, sometimes misspelling the name of the supposed maker.  
Reply 3 0
povster Senior Member 2,537 posts
povster
cwroyds wrote:
No, no, no, no, no, and NOPE...
Run, run, run, away from this sitar, especially if they are asking KL&Bros prices!!!!


That sums it up very nicely!
...Michael
Dasani - the official bottled water of ICM
Panini - the official sandwich of ICM
Reply 0 0
danyjr Senior Member 131 posts
danyjr
This is too obvious. Sorry to be unsparing here, but does the OP know much about sitars or merely a bargain hunter?

If you're so interested in purchasing a sitar and live in Germany, why don't you browse India-Instruments in Berlin? Then you are sure to get an instrument that has been carefully picked and set up to be played right away.

With old sitars, even when genuine and bought for a sub-market sum, more often than not there are a lot of things that are wrong and need TLC by a professional. By the time you pay the professional to have your instrument set up and ready, your "bargain" may have become far less lucrative than initially imagined.

I tell you this because I was that guy once and I regret it. Sitars are not like guitars you can easily set up by yourself after watching a couple of YouTube videos.
Reply 1 0
cwroyds Senior Member 2,307 posts
cwroyds
Honey wrote:
  He who must not be named! haha, actually managed to unintentionally buy a few actual real instruments from that person.There was alot of issues as i'm sure you might know. Random screws, random nails and random brackets, but under all that was an unlabeled Shermuhammad sold under a store name. Also got a 1970s real rikhiram from them whether they knew it or not.


Yeah, He actually came up with some really interesting old instruments. He always had genuine Naskars, etc, BUT I didn't understand why he kept presenting obvious fake Kanailal and Hiren Roy sitars. It would be a swampy old thing with a freshly minted (obviously fake) badge. Even after the tenth rejected sitar, he kept insisting that his supplier wouldn't sell him a fake... I will say that he always sold them at a very reasonable price. He did not seek Kanailal or Hiren Roy prices. That is something I suppose. I did admire his determination, and he did manage to supply some really interesting, if occasionally a bit wonky, sitars to people who needed an instrument at low cost. He provided a service, and I assume there were happy customers.

I kinda miss seeing his finds. He would get pissy if you questioned a dubious ones authenticity, but I enjoyed the banter. 
Reply 1 0
cwroyds Senior Member 2,307 posts
cwroyds
danyjr wrote:
Sitars are not like guitars you can easily set up by yourself after watching a couple of YouTube videos.


Ain't that the truth...
Reply 0 0
kelpo_eater Junior Member 15 posts
kelpo_eater
@danyjr, I do not really see the reason for your accusion tbh.

As I stated in the post, the seller is a renowned builder and repairer of Rudra Veenas etc, which means my first reflex is to not accuse him of doing this on purpose. As my teacher explained to me yesterday, he even knew a person of the Kanailal lineage in some way. The seller answered me yesterday, he is quite shocked and de-listed the instrument afterwards.

As I am not a bargain hunter, but an enthusiast of old instruments, I do not see the problem with me asking for kindly given experience as this forum helped me on many occasions. If I wasnt skeptical in the first place, I would probably not have asked here for opinions 🙂

Anyway, thanks for all the replies again
Reply 0 0
danyjr Senior Member 131 posts
danyjr
I didn't mean to offend you, sorry if it appeared as though I did. I saw recently some posts by you asking for advice in buying various instruments, hence my uncertainty.
Reply 0 0
kelpo_eater Junior Member 15 posts
kelpo_eater
@danyjr all good no worries. The Sarod last time was for a friend not for me though 🙂 

In general its not very common to see those type of reputable instruments listed here in germany, so everytime is somewhat a special chance 😃

I definitely lack the experience in judging what is a real Kanailal badge for example, but once again I learned a lot through this forum
Reply 0 0
Sitar Fixer Senior Member 133 posts
Sitar Fixer
NO ! NO ! NO !  This is a total fake. 
Reply 1 0
westsea Senior Member 410 posts
westsea
cwroyds wrote:

I kinda miss seeing his finds. He would get pissy if you questioned a dubious ones authenticity, but I enjoyed the banter. 

What happened to him?
Reply 1 0
Reply