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mike hooker

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Reply with quote  #1 
i made a delrin bridge for my surbahar and i am starting on the jawari. i have to say, from just the basic shape i carved, i was surprised it sounded as well as it does already. i decided to start with the high chikari strings first, as they arent fretted, and would be the easiest ones to learn on. jawari is a crazy thing! the two outer chikari strings, so close together, yet one was very open and buzzy, the other quite dry. i would think those two would have initially had the same sound. already jawari is a mystery.

i filed the bridge a bit, quieted down the buzzy one, opened up dry one. much better.

now some questions before i take things too far. jawari has to be played in to really bring out the tone, but how do you know how far to go with filing before you let riyaz do its thing? if jawari on a string is close, what effect does playing have on the jawari? my sense ( usually wrong) tells me a bit open and buzzy jawari will settle down with time, a dry sound will always be dry. is this correct?

i'm thinking of recording some sound samples and posting them, to solicit opinions on which way to take it. would that be of value?

also, when first doing jawari on the ma string , i'm thinking its best to work the back slope of the bridge to get the unfretted tone correct, then work the front slope to get the fretted tone correct. does that sound like a good way to go? ps- i'm shooting for a closed, long sustain sound.

thanks!!
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Sitarfixer

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Reply with quote  #2 
Your take on working the back side first is right on. Trick is to do the entire surface, not just one string at a time. The BASIC shape needs to be set in first. Once you've got that, then you can get in under any needed individual strings with a 1/2" flat sharp chisel and do light dusting on the sweet spot as needed. Always read the surface under the entire string length on the bridge surface for any breaks in the glaze line. These are low spots and rob you of potential goodness. With filing, I keep my thumb over the center of the bridge area. This keeps the file square to the bridge surface and keeps the bridge edges from getting rounded down. Fun stuff, eh ? !
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barend

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "mike
i decided to start with the high chikari strings first, as they arent fretted, and would be the easiest ones to learn on. jawari is a crazy thing! the two outer chikari strings, so close together, yet one was very open and buzzy, the other quite dry. i would think those two would have initially had the same sound. already jawari is a mystery.
I think getting a good sound from the chickaris, not too dull and not too sharp, is appart from the main string the most difficult part of the jawari filing. So any tips on this might be useful for me too.
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mike hooker

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Reply with quote  #4 
before i go further and muck things up, more questions. on the shape of the backside of the bridge: what about the shape affects the jawari? what actually creates the open and /or closed sound? does more string contact on the flat part of the bridge( between the back and front slopes) create a more open or more closed sound? brian goddens tutorial depicts the closed jawari as having the rear slope run from the rear to more near the front, resulting in a lot of string contact on the rear curve, minimal string contact on the " flat" part of the bridge. open jawari as less rear slope area, much more contact on the flat part of the bridge. that seems on the face of it to be backwards, and my limited jawari experience seems to bear that out. i want to open up some strings, and it seems to me having the rear slope continue to a more forward point may be the way to go.
i'm thinking less overall string contact on the flat part of the jawari allows the string more room to vibrate. more contact " deadends" the string. but tthen again, how does a " deadend" string allow a long sustain? its all so confusing, is there a definative consensus of how this actually works, and which way to go?

thanks
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princessjesusbopeep

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Reply with quote  #5 
http://forums.chandrakantha.com/archives/2/0262.html

i dunno if that helps any tho?
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element-82

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Reply with quote  #6 
Mike,
there are many ways to do jawari, all that matters is how it sounds, then you know if you have it right or not. I prefer the bump in the middle approach. The angle of attach of this bump fore and aft is what gives you the open vs closed sound. I would do the whole thing the same way and worry only about the Ma string. That is where all the work is because you have to deal with a lot of different angles of contact. Get that right and the rest will fall into place.

Pb

Quote:
Originally Posted by "mike
before i go further and muck things up, more questions. on the shape of the backside of the bridge: what about the shape affects the jawari? what actually creates the open and /or closed sound? does more string contact on the flat part of the bridge( between the back and front slopes) create a more open or more closed sound? brian goddens tutorial depicts the closed jawari as having the rear slope run from the rear to more near the front, resulting in a lot of string contact on the rear curve, minimal string contact on the " flat" part of the bridge. open jawari as less rear slope area, much more contact on the flat part of the bridge. that seems on the face of it to be backwards, and my limited jawari experience seems to bear that out. i want to open up some strings, and it seems to me having the rear slope continue to a more forward point may be the way to go.
i'm thinking less overall string contact on the flat part of the jawari allows the string more room to vibrate. more contact " deadends" the string. but tthen again, how does a " deadend" string allow a long sustain? its all so confusing, is there a definative consensus of how this actually works, and which way to go?

thanks

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mike hooker

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Reply with quote  #7 
i'm at the point where it is quite nice. i need to do a little work on the Ma string , on the higher frets, and big meends, its a little dry. i guess at this point, i need to work the front of the bridge. the Sa, Pa, low Sa sound terrific, way better than they did before. i dont play those fretted above the 7th fret, so those strings jawari on the higher frets isnt a problem . they sound awesome on 7th fret and below, as well as open.

my only real problem right now is the high Sa chickari. its still a bit dry. it was real dry, and i worked it till it was better, but i'm not sure how to procede. i might leave it alone for a bit. i think its a tricky thing, due to the higher tension of that string. when it was dry at high Sa, at middle Sa it had more life. now that i have it better at high Sa, it sounds like crap at middle Sa. does that make sense , or help in any way?

one thing very cool, and it may be the delrin. sustain is much better ,and dig this: when i play the high Sa chikari, listening to the tone, there was a detectable low, long sustain. it was the main Sa string vibrating sympathetically ! i've never heard that before.

any ideas are most welcome. ps- i might add, even though its getting there i honestly feel its more luck, i really havent learned to understand what is really going on.
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Surbaharplayer

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Reply with quote  #8 
Yesterday I played with a friend of mine who plays pakahawaj. He's the husband from my teacher and we play every week together. I've got 2 surbahars that are playable and I leave one at my teachers' place. I hadn't changed the kharaj since I bought that instrument (over 2 years ago), so I decided to put on a new string last week. Unfortunatly : different gauge...jawari totally gone...just buzz. I also noticed a large dip at the main string. (almost half a millimeter lower than the other strings). During our playing I just avoided the kharaj. Halfway our playing session the pakhawaj player had to pick up his daughter from school and told me he would be back in 15 minutes.

Well...to cut a long story short: I had a file with me and while he was gone I took all the strings off, filed half a millimeter off the bridge. SInce the action was a tad too high I didn't bother about taking off height from the jawari ....Strung her up...tuned her... bang!! done....

My friend walked in and couldn't believe it..

So can't I ...hahaha ...

My jawari on my other surbahar was done half a year ago and we spend a whole day working on the bridge...

I got the feeling I was VERY lucky yesterday.
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Surbaharplayer

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Reply with quote  #9 
BTW...when I was in India I saw guy do a trick while doing jawari. The string buzzed like crazy and to determine the point where the buzzy sound originated he would slide his fingernail from the back of the bridge over the string towards the headstock, pressing it down; as soon as he reached the trouble spot the buzz would disappear an he knew where to sand or file.
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