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nigama

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Posts: 70
Reply with quote  #1 
Hi,
following up the topic of Jati
http://forums.chandrakantha.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7648
I had the idea to search for an app and found examples i.g.


Some claim that Sa Grama scale mentioned by Bharata and others is now reflected in modern Khafi thaat and southern melakarta raga No 22 called Kharaharapriya.I wonder if someone can explain the exact reasoning of this? Fortunately the southern, carnatic ragas often are still performed with dance like in the example cited, so one could perhaps imagine to have perceived a glimpse of what suddha Jati Sadji might have looked like before countless transformations, which was also performed with dance and drama?

What is ur opinion? Mine is: Jatis at the present state of art can be considered to be obscure, since they cannot be understood anymore from the earliest texts known at present. However it appears they were rather „standardized“ melodies that were believed to never to be changed. There should have been a time when these melodies were concurrant and were considered the only authoritive origin of indian music, that was: Indra was to be pleased only by these Jatis and nothing else was allowed to be played? This cannot be understood anymore, all we still can read is that first religious dance drama presided over by Indra started with Jatis of Ma Grama and continued with Jatis of Sa Grama. Seems like Ma Grama came before Sa Grama? So most of our knowledge about Jatis is rather from later authors who possible knew as much about Jatis as we do? From this perspective it might be a weary task to try to reconstruct Jatis? :?:
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jaan e kharabat

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Reply with quote  #2 
I have read a theoretical explanation for the equating Sa-grama with Kafi thaat but it was too convoluted to remember all the details. Suffice to say that it has to do with the value of shruti's in the old systems, and when you translate those values into modern terms you get a shape that is most like a n S g m P D n S one.
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If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
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nigama

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Posts: 70
Reply with quote  #3 
Hi,

It will sometimes take me time to reply, but it is a lengthy matter anyhow and time should not play the important role.

I agree that one may come up with good theories about Jati and Thaat and that the recovery of the original shruti pitches should play a dominant role. But we need all the possible documentation available collected to achieve this and this will be an ardous task for the future.
For many years an Indian Institute is claiming to bring out a new scholarly revision of the Natya Shastra, supported by private US funds. I do not know how far this project did advance, but it should include all these subtle questions and their solutions state of art, hopefully.

But according of what is left in old manuscripts, an ancient dance drama performance should have started with Madhyami Jati of Ma Grama. The description of Shruti in the Natya Shastra is imperfect, so that later writers tried to rediscover them and today we are still in the discussion. But so much for sure, most present pundits seem to agree that in Natya Shastra music, that is Jati was used alone to emphasize the poetry and dance of the dramatic act. Jati had probably the same function as the music in the dance clip of a Raga on utube. Since Natya Shastra proposed only four fundamental emotional sentiments with four subsidaries, they likely played a dominant part to understand Jati at the time of Natya Shastra just as does Grama and Shruti?
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