INDIAN MUSIC FORUMS

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Hamletsghost

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Reply with quote  #16 
SCORE

What a beauty Carleton.
Kudos
NOW
Lets play what if. What structural problems do you see?
If the neck is solid to ghullu here's what I would ( ah err have Tony ops: ) do.
First make up paste to fill in where it has flaked off so no bone loss.
Second clean n refurb body and frets.
Third replace chikari posts if necessary.
Fourth have Tony do his magic peg shaft trick for broken peg :wink:
Fifth replace strings with the lightest gauge feasible with possibly a C tuning & jawari bridge.
VOILA

IF there are no structural issues you MAY get an echo of this magnificent beauties sound. At that point you could still hang a CONSERVATORS restoration NOT refinished item on you wall or even detuned it could stand in your collection waiting for an afternoon of playing joy on a true vintage masterpiece.

Again congrats on this museum piece it's gone to a very worthy caretaker.

8)

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AllenDS

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Reply with quote  #17 
I am fond of what-if games, too. Even though this instrument has no sympathetic strings, my heart strings tug at me. I couldn't help wondering what a restorter would do if this was a vintage guitar such as a Gibson L5. If it was, I think the repairs to the cracked top would be done by popping the top off so the cracks could be clamped from both sides. My wild imagination envisions a worse case scenario where a brace or two would be fitted to the under side using a technique similar to the bass bar on a violin. Easier said than done, and all that effort just for the love of it all.

CW, I'm glad you have it regardless of what happens.

~Allen

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Fil

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Reply with quote  #18 
Assuming there's no wood rot, anything that can be made can be fixed, hopefully without replacing too much if anything.

After all, many Cremona violins from the 1600s are still going strong.

Of course (like nearly all Strads for example) they've had their necks replaced with longer ones, the bass bar has been ripped out and replaced with a thicker one, they use thicker sound-posts, higher bridges, steel strings have replace gut and they are played at a higher pitch with a different bow, but hey, they can still sound great, despite being under far greater string tension than they were designed for. :wink:
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #19 
It is very tempting to get someone in the know to check it out.
Honestly there are too many cracks for me to think it has a chance to be reborn.
There are cracks in the toomba, cracks in the back of the neck, cracks along the peg holes, cracks in the headstock, most of the binding is precarious, and it just needs a head to toe remake.
I can see doing it as a labor of love at some point, just to keep it in a state that will last.
BUT it would to be an extremely expensive restoration that I simply could not afford to do any time soon.
For the time being I will just have to enjoy it as a piece of art.
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AllenDS

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "cwroyds"
....For the time being I will just have to enjoy it as a piece of art.
...and that is likely the wisest course of action. Enjoy the view!

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cabaray

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Reply with quote  #21 
Hello cwroyds

I ran across this picture and it reminded me so much of your sitar I had to post it.

Ray

http://www.patric-marks.com/Indian_Muser_Agra.JPG
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #22 
Awesome!!!
Great photo.
I have been googling every combination of related words and phrases trying to find images of really old sitars.
I have found almost nothing close to mine until I saw your photo.
Well found.

The sitar in the photo seems contemporary to mine in size, shape, and in the spirit of the decoration.
That tabli decoration pattern is almost identical, though larger in the photo.

One website has that postcard listed as 1910, but that date could be a guess on the websites part.
It does look about right for 1910 though.
One knowledgeable friend of mine guessed 1910-1920 for my sitar, but he was not sure unless he saw it in person.
Tony is very knowledgeable too and guessed the 1940s or slightly earlier, so who knows.
For me the thing that puts the age earlier is the Bone fan Ghullu decoration.
It just feels like it is from an earlier time.

The more I look at this sitar, the more I love it.
It is very cool.
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Sitarfixer

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Reply with quote  #23 
Your baby could well be from the 1910ish era as this photo shows. The frets were the item holding the date as newer. Not knowing the history or use of this instrument makes it really tough to pin down. Frets could have been changed at any time during its career so having this pic available makes that idea plausable and most likely puts the age of it in the 1910 slot. Well done, you lucky dog. Hang on to this one. Went digging in my right click vault and came up with these: I have the same pic as above and it says "1900" so your baby could be even older !

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Sitarfixer

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Reply with quote  #24 
Here's some more pics. Love this stuff !

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Markoz12

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Reply with quote  #25 
I like the 3D shot with the boat on the river. Cross eyed view stereo image.

This is a 3D shot I took for those not familiar. Sit back and cross your eyes (keeping your head level) and join the two images together so they overlap. Look at the middle image and you will see it looks three dimensional....apologies if everyone knows!
Hiren stereo.jpg 

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Greg

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Markoz12"
Sit back and cross your eyes (keeping your head level) and join the two images together so they overlap.
...I've got a headache....

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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #27 
Awesome shots Tony!!!
I LOVE these old shots of musicians and instruments.
Is there a good source for stuff like this?
I flipped through a friends "Sitar And Sarod In The 18Th & 19Th Centuries", but it seemed to have mostly drawings.

I dont know why my google searches were so fruitless.
I need to hone my search skills.

Just out of interest, when did makers switch from the flat rail frets to the modern rod frets?
Some of those old shots seem to have the more modern frets even thought the photo is obvious very old.
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Sitarfixer

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Reply with quote  #28 
Among my many odd traits, I collect certain postcards. eBay has uncountabajillion cards any day of the week. Punch up the obvious titles under collectibles / postcards or photo images and there will be a nice selection to check out. Some bargains as well.
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #29 
It is funny how the universe brings you things you ask for.
As soon as I was finished posting that last post, I went to the mailbox and found that my book about Kanai Lal had arrived.
It has many pictures of older sitars and even has a page with chart showing the differences between the older style sitars and the modern sitar.
Kanai Lal started making the modern style starting in about 1930, and I am sure it too a while for other makers to catch up, so 1910-1940 is all still very possible for my little sitar.

For anyone interested, you should definitely get that Kanai Lal book.
Lars has it on his website for sale.
It looks to be a fascinating book.
Cant wait to read it.
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Fil

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Reply with quote  #30 
Great photos. I especially like the 3D ones. Thanks guys.

Also, note the difference between the two versions of the one cabaray first posted.

It seems Sitarfixer's pic shows a before and after shot...with and without stage make-up. The punkawalla especially seems to have overdone it in the first photo.

(yes I know it's been retouched in the first one..and by the same lady who ruined that fresco of Christ in Spain, it seems :wink: )
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