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Sitarismylife

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Does anyone find any difference between Imratkauns by Utd.Imrat Khan and Mohankauns by Pt.Ravi Shankar?
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chrisitar

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Reply with quote  #2 
Hey! I can! I studied these ragas heavily in preparation for a concert honoring M. Ghandi. They do use almost the exact same tuning - Malkauns with shuddh ga or Rageshri with komal dha but the main difference I've spotted is that Mohankauns sometimes sprinkles a komal ga in the mix and Imratkauns uses shuddh re more frequently. There are only a few recordings of these ragas so a thorough comparison isn't as efficient as more popular ragas would be, but certain melodic differences can be heard when comparing them. I have a recording of Wajahat Khan playing Imratkauns from a concert if you'd like it. Otherwise, the only Mohankauns i've heard is by Ravi Shankar and the only Imratkauns is from Imrat Khan.

To my ear, Imratkauns is most similar to Rageshri with komal dha and Mohankauns is similar to Malkauns with shuddh ga.

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Sitarismylife

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Thanks, chrisitar. I have been thinking over this over a long time. When you said about malkauns with suddha ga or rageshri with komal dha, it kind of left me thinking. I also sometimes confuse Parameshwari with Ahir Bhairav. Although there other differences as well, but at times, one scale of a raga simply resembles another due to the science of gram murchana. I don't yet know much about it. Perhaps someone could enlighten me more on that.
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chrisitar

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Parameshwari was created by Ravi Shankar as well, although it uses the same tuning as Ahir (Sa, re, ga, ma, Dha, ni, sa - tanpura: sa, ma) it's a totally different sound. Also Ahir uses a bit of pancham and Parameshwari ignores it completely. The tuning is always just the skeleton of the raga. Ahir Bhairav changes the ga to shuddh and employs mixing Bhairav raga into Ahir. Things like ga ma re Sa, Sa ga ma, etc.
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nicneufeld

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Having finished up learning a Bhimpalasi gat, I'm now being taught Imratkauns, which is described by Ustadji as a combination of rageshree and malkauns. Pa is always omitted, Re only on the descent. 'n S G m d n S', R' S' n d m G R S. That's about all I know as yet but I'm just getting started with it!
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chrisitar

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Oh thats really cool! We got to see Wajahat play that on the sarod when we saw him in St Louis. Fascinating piece of music indeed. I love those ragas that make you wonder how you should feel because they use both 'happy' and 'sad' elements (shuddh ga and komal dha, in this case). Charukeshi is another one that does that. In fact, the tuning is the same as Charukeshi but with pancham omitted.
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nicneufeld

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Quote:
Originally Posted by "chrisitar"
I love those ragas that make you wonder how you should feel because they use both 'happy' and 'sad' elements (shuddh ga and komal dha, in this case).
I'm a little further in learning this and the feel of the raag is starting to sink in a bit more. But for me, I don't really get the "happy" element from the shuddh Ga in Imratkauns, because like Malkauns it omits Pa, and with shuddh Ma, these raags often invert in my brain, with Ma sounding like the Sa. Call it my Western fixation with fifths if you will (well, fifths of another sort, perhaps ). But in this case, Imratkauns (to my ear, if not my mind), sounds almost like Sa komal ga, ma, Pa, shuddh Dha, shuddh Ni, Sa. Well, with "shuddh Dha" (actually Re) omitted in ascent.

So that seems to get close to Patdeep, only with no "Re" (what would be Pa in reality). Which is why the shuddh Ga doesn't seem to impart its usual melodious, pleasant feel, but more of a tension, such as you would have in patdeep or pilu with a shuddh Ni on a komal ga raag.

The only raags that don't have that similar affect on me (omit Pa, and then the Sa seems to flip to Ma) are ones with tivra Ma. Sohini, to me, has no Sa ambiguity whatsoever. Probably because you don't have a fifth relationship from tivra Ma to Sa, as you do with shuddh Ma.
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fossesitar

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Reply with quote  #8 
Hi Nicnue - glad to see things rolling along with you and UIK. How is he doing, how is his health? Please give him my regards and tell him that I asked about him! GF
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