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Posts: 11
Reply with quote  #1 
Concerning fusion or hybrid styles, where do you see tradition end and hybrid begin? Is there anything wrong with this sampling of music? What are there codes of conduct when sampling music for it to be acceptable? Who can, what can be sampled, and how should it be represented?

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Posts: 2,233
Reply with quote  #2 
In my mind there is Classical Indian Music, and then there is everything else.
If you are talking about ICM then it will probably never be acceptable.
Anything that falls outside classical music is fair game though.
As long as you are not calling it Classical indian music then there are no rules.
Do what you like. Then listeners will either like or or they wont.
Classical musicians should not criticize those who experiment with other musical styles.
It is all music and is supposed to be interesting and exciting.

If I had listen to my Western Classical teachers I would have never become a good blues or Jazz guitarist.
And those style took nothing away from my Classical guitar style and technique.
I saw them as separate disciplines.
You will certainly get into trouble trying to introduce funky experimentation into Indian Classical styles.

As for sampling music. I have always found this a weak method of creating music.
Many American Rap stars have made millions by taking an old hit song, sampling the chorus and hook, and then rapping over it as if it is their own song.
It requires no skill other than audio software knowledge.
For a true musician is is a copout.

If one is using a sampled instrument sound to create the music but are actually playing an instrument using the sampled sound, then that is perfectly OK.
This is because it is just a sound but you are using you skill as a musician to make the sound become music.
If you sampled Vilayat Khan and cut up the performance to use bits and pieces to make a Vilayat Khan sound collage then I would say you are going to piss everyone off.
Just my take. Others may disagree.

Posts: 11
Reply with quote  #3 
I agree with you in keeping classical music with its traditions and customs. I have never studied ICM closely, and so I don't know its long history to comment on it. I have studied classic western music, and know that through outside influences, its traditions and styles have changed and broke with their ties for the better.
I am constantly searching out new musicians that can expand my musical experience. Creating new sounds, rhythms, patterns, melodies that inspire me in my own works. I would never take a sample and diliberately use it in the same way as previous. I want to make it my own. Even when I'm playing classical music, I want to transform the classical piece into something that is my own, of course staying in the tradition. Its how the individual has played the piece, been inspired by the musician, or used the sample as their own that is the defining line between a musician and an amateur.
I am speaking in terms of popular music now. What are the trends and traditions that will one day translate to a modern classical tradition?

Have a spendid day,

Posts: 178
Reply with quote  #4 
i think manually setting a record back over and over to make a beat is very innovative and musical wether its someone elses songor noteven which is how itstarted ithink thats real cool andrap is supposed to be about lyrical content anyway
itdoesntseem like it anymore tho
i kinda made a beatusing the beggining of an albeniz song actuallyby playing it myselftho
id like to hear some sitar and tabla beats like a looped gat or something
obviously you cant really do thatwith themasters workstho thats just rude
i dunno
just dont try to call it icm i guess

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Posts: 1,937
Reply with quote  #5 
"Hybrid styles" - sounds like a media spin to me. "Sample Artist" is nothing more than an frustrated talentless thief who lifts the tracks of someone else's work, rants over it in multi-tracked pro-tooled agendees. "Genre" - yeah! Right! Validation of audible tripe. That must give you some idea of where I sit with this topic. It's a real slap in the face when you spend some extended time to put together a respectable 16 bar tabla track to realize that the final output consists of re-sampling beats 3 and 4 of measure 7, looping it into infinity, quantizing the poor scrap into a jackboot lock step, burying the mess with layer upon layer of dead midi djembai, congas, rude crash cymbal, maracas, disjointed shakuhachi and random ghatam hits. This ear vomit is then pleasantly labelled as a really tight "ethno groove". "Groove" to me is nothing more than a shallow rut.

I suppose that if you can take a sitar, tabla and other Indian axes, apply them tastefully in a real time situation without sampling thievery and deliver a believable piece of music, you've done well. I bastardized these instruments for years playing in belly dance bands, fusion bands, even providing an Indian sample library for E-MU knowing that the sound would be there but not the manner of performance. That was a safe bet as you can sure pick out a keyboard generated sitar from a live performance. There is a place for midi, sampling, etc. Hiring a full orchestra (union at that) is not realistic for garage recorders. Maybe if the compootuhs, sound modules, software and other cosmetic circuits get their share of the creative credit, then we can all be at peace.

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