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gillo

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Reply with quote  #16 
Personally, I really don't mind what people play as long as they play in tune, in time and with a command of basic techniques... most noodlers I have heard lack these 3 things.
for example -
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trippy monkey

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Reply with quote  #17 
AND he's left-handed :wink:
Just had a listen!! AARGHHH

It's awful!! Doesn't seem to know what he's doing & that guy on the whatevers?!!?!?
Unfortunately I've met many like this in Varanasi.

I was playing in a friend's shop & we 'let' this tourist guy loose on a bansuri after giving him the notes I was playing. All he did was, for the whole bloody time, just run up & down the scale, with no regard whatsoever for the music OR what I was doing. What a clown!! :roll: In the end I just stopped as he was in a world of his own!!

Another friend actually sound recorded it but I much too humble,?!?!?! :wink: , to let anyone hear it. Bit ashamed actually!! :wink:

Nick
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fossesitar

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Reply with quote  #18 
As an unwilling victim of many self absorbed, out of tune, way too loud, deluded "musicians" in countless jam sessions I feel your pain.....

Unfortunately it is usually the lowest common denominator that determines the level of musical intensity (or not : ) and that is too often the guy who feels he is entitled to "solo" nonstop....... yes, off in his own world indeed.

When you play with people who LISTEN the difference is night and day.
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JRJ

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Reply with quote  #19 
Presentation IMO is very, very important and this video should probably been put in the delete file. That being said 'David' is not trying to pawn off his
sitar playing as "Classical" but as
"steeped in the traditional ragas of the music of North India."

This little performance would have been fine with me as a casual shot of David Poitibriand playing his sitar in the living room as we all do.
His sitar may not be perfectly in tune but it's okay. We are all equally aware that tuning and keeping the sitar in tune takes constant vigilance,
so for what ever reason when the camera got switched on 'such was thus' :|.

The problem for me is the percussionist and the sound of his 'contraption'. Don't forget I posted this in relation to Tony's hybrid sitar on the Odd Music
site as an example of an 'experimental' approach, like "hey check this out"....In experimental music, the people who play it, know that most of the time
it fails :x. But that is okay too because when it is successful the success is usually in an uncharted emotional territory and it feels very satisfying to
turn over a rock and find something new 8).

David Pontibriand's "Penumbral solo" is very beautiful:

http://www.davidpontbriand.net/

jRj
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trippy monkey

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Reply with quote  #20 
Just been on the website...?!?!?
Almost exclusively self taught since 1973??? AND he gives lessons???

I sincerely hope his video on youtube is NO indication of his teaching standards & quality!!! :wink:
Sorry!!

Nick
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David Russell Watson

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Reply with quote  #21 
Well it's only too easy to mock so many of these non-classically trained sitarists that we always see on Youtube and elsewhere, so I won't.

However I do have to say that, even at their best, most of these efforts that are ICM-inspired only simply lack the richness, complexity, and subtlety of even a mid-grade performance of authentic ICM.

Setting Pontbriand's performance in question aside for the moment, what the percussionist alone is doing is just simply... I don't know how to put it... "juvenile"?

Having listened to the likes of Zakir Hussain or Ahmed Jan Thirakwa, how is something so simple, nevermind for the moment that it's not authentic ICM, ever going to satisfy?

I don't say this an ICM-only snob either. I'm a fan of music from almost every genre known.

David
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trippy monkey

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Reply with quote  #22 
Totally agree with your post but I feel my comments still stand.

If he's almost exclusively self taught then what does HE teach? I hope it's not what he's doing on that vid?!!??

Nick
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gillo

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "JRJ"
Presentation IMO is very, very important and this video should probably been put in the delete file. That being said 'David' is not trying to pawn off his
sitar playing as "Classical" but as "steeped in the traditional ragas of the music of North India."

David Pontibriand's "Penumbral solo" is very beautiful:

http://www.davidpontbriand.net/

jRj
I can't seem to find a working link to the 'penumbral solo', I am hoping to hear something steeped in ICM...
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Sitarfixer

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Reply with quote  #24 
This topic certainly took a left turn ! Regarding the current theme, it could be looked at in quite a few ways. Coming across as a teacher of sitar while establishing the rank of 'self taught' does rattle me a bit. I know more than a few out there who are teaching without much material or bogus material and getting $30 - $60 per hour doing so. Some are even "certified" ! I also admit to be a self taught hack who had the good fortune to have some heavyweights show me all the crap I'm doing wrong. I've had quite a few interested people with sitars ask me for lessons. I'm happy to show what I've picked up and qualify my pitch right up front. David in Maine must be the only game in town. With the internet, there are now options for instruction but there's still nothing like live and in your face. Gotta give a point or two to David for actually getting off his ass and doing something with his instruments. Presentations in any format that turn people on to this instrument is fine providing it's not a total disgrace. Having played on many many New Age projects in years past, I would say that Davids chops are sufficient for that line of music as well as offering an "introduction to sitar". Would love to see/hear some meatier composition but that is just a matter of taste. Getting into a meditative state to play this stuff is impossible for me so there's another point for our man in Maine. It's a shame the guy with the gourds is so limited in his performance skills. Nice rig, by the way. Elemental music I cannot accept - much like a painting done by pidgeons dipped in paint and selling for big bucks. I imagine that there are a fair number of people who will give a rousing thumbs up for this level of performance. These are the general audience. We on the forum for the most part have a working knowledge + - regarding this music so when we see and hear a starry eyed gringo rasta hair tibetan garbed millet munchin' jai rammin' one with the universe slap the crap out of a poor sitar, it is most certainly justified to get up in arms. As the vast majority of ears are attatched to the culturally ignorant, Just about any tasteless bitch slapping on a sitar will get attention. Flashing back to Eddie Peabody on the banjo, a lot of it comes down to being a good salesman.
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nicneufeld

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Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "gillo"
I can't seem to find a working link to the 'penumbral solo', I am hoping to hear something steeped in ICM...
It's embedded in his home page, look on the left side.

It has a certain fuzzy beauty to it, one could say...but it makes me think of what I might sound 20-30 years from now had I never found an actual teacher. Much better to listen to perhaps than some of the TRUE abusers of the instrument (of whom Sri Chinmoy was surely chief) but you can get the idea that everything is, well, fuzzy and rounded. The sur in that clip is kind of slurred and imprecise and while it seems to hint at Yaman it doesn't really stick to the appropriate aroha pattern. Which, to be honest, if you're self-taught, what can you do, particularly prior to the days of the internet? I live in Kansas City, and but for you guys here on the internet and my teacher who I mostly learn from over Google video chat, I'd be lucky to be sounding like that.

For me though the idea of a teacher is a higher thing. It's a bit crazy to set yourself up as a serious teacher (and professor at the college) of a classical music tradition if you've never been actually taught yourself.
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gillo

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "nicneufeld"
It's embedded in his home page, look on the left side.
...
It has a certain fuzzy beauty to it, one could say...
ah, got my flash player working finally... seems like a nice enough dreamy surbahar alap-like piece, I do like the restraint in it. Much better than the video.
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