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Acelga

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hi guys,

I am stucked with this kind of compositions for some years. I have no teacher anymore and this was thaught to me several years ago. I would like so much to practice this properly once for all. I am not sure anymore if I am playing this right. I´ll try to explain it the best I can.

This is the composition:

Dha Te | Te Dha | Ghe Na | Dha ti |
Ghe Na | Dha Ghe | Tin Na | Ke Na |

Ok, now this is supposed to be played as a rela, so there is a “fast” version of this composition so you can play this at 2x/4x, and it is as follows:

Dha -te re | kete Dha ti | Ghe na Na Ghe | Tin Na Ke Na |

Or, to make it “more fluent”:

Na Ghe Te re | Ghe te Ta ti | Ghe na Na Ghe | Tin Na Ke Na |

(some might say this is "cheating" :mrgreen: but sorry, I´m very interested on this "cheating technique")
In this “fast version” you should play te re ke te on Delhi style.

If you try this, you will see that the first 3 bars are comfortable to play, even if you speed up.

My problem is on the Tin Na Ke Na.
For making it clearer, I understand that
Na= index finger
Ne= ring+pinky fingers

I don´t know if I should play both Na with the index, or the ring+pinky fingers (Tin Ne Ke Ne). Or only one of them. -I don´t like the feel of the rela playing both "Na"s like "Ne"s, though I think my teacher used to play it like this.

Having in account that the khali or next palta will start most likely with “Na”, I find pretty uncomfortable to play the last Na with the index finger.
I can play this very fluent and relaxed until I come to this “Tin Na Ke Na” and I think I am missing something here. Is there some phrase that equals “tin na Ke na” and is used for relas?
I have some other composition like this and the end is “tinnakena” too, and I find it strange, being the rest of the composition so “fingering-friendly”.

I hope my question is more or less clear.
Any ideas on this would be apreciated. Many Thanks.
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evening84

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Reply with quote  #2 
I cannot comment on the particular composition but I think the phrase you are looking for is 'tinekin'.
This would be my prescription :
(1) Mentally prepare yourself to play that fast. Recite it as TinKin (not tinakina or tinekine or variants thereof). TinKinTinKinTinKinTinKin .... till the cows come home. Go nuts. Drive everyone around you nuts.
(2) Play it is Ti Ne Ki Ne BUT there is a slight difference between the first Ne and second Ne. Both Ne are played with ring (or ring/pinky) but for the first Ne, the ring/pinky are coming in laterally, lightly touch the syahi edge and rise and the movement for the second Ne is more or less the finger(s) falling vertically in place on the syahi edge and again with a light touch.
(3) Find a traditional composition that will help you develop it. My suggestion would be a rela that I quite like by Ustad Amir Hussain Khan (who was known to play this at an insane speed) :

dhage terekete gege terekete dhinegin
dhage terekete gege nanakin tinekine
take terekete keke terekete tinekin
dhage terekete gege nanakin dhinegin

Hope this helps.

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Acelga

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Reply with quote  #3 
Hi evening84, thanks for the nice explanation.
I am very happy to read that because that
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evening84

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Reply with quote  #4 
The 'open and closed' sound of the phrase may again be composition specific; I think that touch can be light or not so light. (Oh the marvelous ambiguities of tabla ..) Now I may be out of my depth here (so others are welcome to chime in and correct ) but there could even be a case where the first Ne could be light/open and the second is closed [ I am playing it out on my knees now - sort of sounds like TineKinnn or TunaKata]

Not the easiest of phrases, this tinekine/dhinegine , but not that difficult either. Spend some time alone with it and she'll come. Good Luck.

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hbajpai

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Reply with quote  #5 
You may also want to consider playing this composition in the following ways.

Personally, i would play this as tinnakena and not tinkine. For tinekine find another composition. There is a classic suggested above.

Original
Dhati tadha gena dhati gena dhage tinna kena

Dhati tadha gena dhati gene dhage tinna kena

Dhati tadha gene dhati gene dhage tinna kena

I am sure you are aware, its not just about changing tinakena to tinekine that makes it a rela or rav.

I personally feel, this composition is just not as "fuller" or fluffier to conclude with a tinekine.

Then again, this is music and art and not science. If it sounds good play whatever you want as long as you are entertaining someone....
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gamera123

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Reply with quote  #6 
Hi there,

I have been taught when playing Tin Na Ke Na at faster tempos you play the tin or dhin as Tun or Dhun (respectively). Also, the Na is played as no and no "cheating" by playing Ne is acceptable.

A good example is the punjub kaida Dha Tre Kre Dhi Ki Te Ge Tre Kre Dhi ki te Dha ti Dha Ga Dhin Na Ge Na Dha Ti Ge Na Dha Ti Dha Ge Tin Na Ke Na...(and then Khali

If you listen to Zakir Ji play this kaida at faster tempos you will always hear the Na as Na and not Ne. That is the reason for the crispness in his sound.

I initially played this with Ne on the end constantly wondering why my rendition of this was so muted, then someone corrected me having me play as I outlined above and all of the sudden it was crisper.

My two cents - all the best!
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Acelga

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Posts: 215
Reply with quote  #7 
thanks hbajpai and gamera123,
yes I feel too that this tinekine at the end of the rela-version doesn
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evening84

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Reply with quote  #8 
@evening84, the composition you posted, is in Ektaal? I don
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hbajpai

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Reply with quote  #9 
Evening84 is correct!

Look at is this way as an alternative:

Composer: Ustad Amir Hussain Khan Saheb.

Dhagetira kitgege tirakit dhinegine
Dhagetira kitgege nanakene tinekine
Taketira kitkeke tirakit tinekine
Dhagetira kitgege nanagene dhinegine

Btw... Just to be clear, tinakena and tinekine are two different phrases and one is not necessarily a substitute for another.
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Acelga

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Reply with quote  #10 
Thank you both, now it
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