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pbercker

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Reply with quote  #1 
How many ways of play Te Te Te Te ?

The obvious ways are:

1) middle, index , middle, index -- Delhi style
2) index, middle, index, middle -- reverse Delhi
3) (middle + ring + pinky), index, (middle + ring + pinky), index
4) index, (middle + ring + pinky), index, (middle + ring + pinky)

But my real question is this: is this sequence "allowed", or ever used? Any reason not to use it?

5) middle, index, ring, index

This sequence is of course familiar as it is used in playing:

6) Te Re Ki Te Ta Ka

where the bols in bold follow the finger sequence in (5).

I have not seen it discussed before, so I'm rather curious about it.



Pascal

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Acelga

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Reply with quote  #2 
Not sure if I understood the question.

I think if you are playing Tetetete "per se", as part of a composition or as intro to a gat, then I think (5) sounds a little bit weaker and uneven compared to the other versions since it's just hard to punch the center of the siahi with the ring finger and get the crispy sound.

In my case, since I am used to play this in Terekitetaka as you pointed out, the phrasing without "ki" sounds strange. I think I should practice this intensively to play it correctly as tetetete.

I am more used to the Banaras style. Somebody posted here a video of a Banaras player making an introduction (it has a name) to a Gath based only on very strong tetes and it was amazing.
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pbercker

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Acelga"
Not sure if I understood the question.

I think if you are playing Tetetete "per se", as part of a composition or as intro to a gat, then I think (5) sounds a little bit weaker and uneven compared to the other versions since it's just hard to punch the center of the siahi with the ring finger and get the crispy sound.

In my case, since I am used to play this in Terekitetaka as you pointed out, the phrasing without "ki" sounds strange. I think I should practice this intensively to play it correctly as tetetete.

I am more used to the Banaras style. Somebody posted here a video of a Banaras player making an introduction (it has a name) to a Gath based only on very strong tetes and it was amazing.
I wonder if you're referring to this ...

http://forums.chandrakantha.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10962&p=66164&hilit=bhagwat#p66164
Quote:
The tabla player here is Pundlik Bhagvat-ji. According to Shawn he was playing a bhumika, something that Benares tabla players play before the Uthan.
or possibly this ...

http://forums.chandrakantha.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11796&p=72152&hilit=kamala+shankar#p72152

It seemed to me that the tabla player played something quite similar to Bhagvat-ji.


Quote:

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TablaBeatz

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Reply with quote  #4 
Pascal - all the Te Te you have mentioned are feesible and are what I have learnt

Ie Delhi syle with separate fingers
Benares with closed fingers
And the Reverse Te Te of both versions

Although I did learn a Fast reverse Te Te
Which was index finger, then ring finger -- I wonder of you or others have come across this version?!

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Greg

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Reply with quote  #5 
I think Acelga was on the right track, it's all down to what sounds best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by "TablaBeatz"
Although I did learn a Fast reverse Te Te
Which was index finger, then ring finger -- I wonder of you or others have come across this version?!
Yes I have played compositions with reverse tite, the underlined ones are reverse...

Dhage Tite DhaGe Trkt Dhina Gena Dhage tite Dhage nadha trkt tite Dhage trkt Dhina Gena + khali

8)

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hbajpai

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Reply with quote  #6 
1,2,3,4 are fine, common and a commodity.

For #5, call it TitaNeti. ti (middle) ta (index) ne (ring) ti (index). Same nikas as your, I just changed the spoken phrase. See how it flies now. DhitaNeti / titaneti.

Another one, similar concept and more popular, dha dhi ne dha.
Dha is standard
Dhi is index on shai with ge
Ne is ring on shai
Dha is standard

I am sure our Benares friends with come back some beautiful and crazy versions of dha dhi na da nikas.
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Nastika

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Greg"
Yes I have played compositions with reverse tite, the underlined ones are reverse...

Dhage Tite DhaGe Trkt Dhina Gena Dhage tite Dhage nadha trkt tite Dhage trkt Dhina Gena + khali

8)
I LOVE this kaida. I have been working on it for the last 3 months, and there are so many little things that make this pleasant. One of my favorite is that lines 1 & 3 contain 2 'Tete's and one 'TiraKita' while lines 2 and 4 have the opposite: 2 'TiraKita's and 1 'Tete'. So balanced. I had been meaning to post it to see others' thoughts on reversing the 'TiTe's, as I had found it to flow the best that way; but wanted some confirmation of my gut feeling. I got the kaida from David Courtney's book: A Focus on the Kaidas, where unfortunately there are no nikas. One small difference in the version I have is that the single 'Tete' in lines 2 & 4 has a 'Ga' added to form 'DheTe', which I use my left hand index finger for. For anyone interested, the full kaida, grouped by bol, with the 'DheTe' difference looks as follows:

| DhaGeTete | DhaGeTiraKita | DhiNaGeNa | DhaGeTeTe |
| DhaGeNaDha | TiraKitaDheTe | DhaGeTiraKita | TinNaKiNa |
| TaaKeTete | TaaKeTiraKita | TinNaKeNa | TaaKeTeTe |
| DhaGeNaDha | TiraKitaDheTe | DhaGeTiraKita | DhiNaGeNa |

and here is the first listed variation, before it goes to double-time.

| DhaGeTete | DhaGeNaDha | TiraKitaDheTe | DhaGeTeTe |
| DhaGeNaDha | TiraKitaDheTe | DhaGeTiraKita | TinNaKiNa |
| TaaKeTete | TaaKeNaTaa | TiraKitaTeTe | TaaKeTeTe |
| DhaGeNaDha | TiraKitaDheTe | DhaGeTiraKita | DhiNaGeNa |
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TablaBeatz

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Reply with quote  #8 
@Nastika - yes that is an interesting kaida. Just to clarify - are you suggesting to play ALL Tete's in the kaida in reverse format?

@Greg - did you forget to underline the final tite? I think for the bols 'trkit tite' it would make sense to play reverse tete

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pbercker

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "hbajpai"
1,2,3,4 are fine, common and a commodity.

For #5, call it TitaNeti. ti (middle) ta (index) ne (ring) ti (index). Same nikas as your, I just changed the spoken phrase. See how it flies now. DhitaNeti / titaneti.
I like it ... if nothing else it could be a good exercise.

Quote:
Another one, similar concept and more popular, dha dhi ne dha.
Dha is standard
Dhi is index on shai with ge
Ne is ring on shai
Dha is standard

I am sure our Benares friends with come back some beautiful and crazy versions of dha dhi na da nikas.
I think I may be misunderstanding something on this second one. When you say standard "Dha" I assume you mean a "kinar Dha" with the index finger ... but then should "Dhi" be with the middle finger? Or rather, it could be with the middle finger ?


PB

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pbercker

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Nastika"

| DhaGeTete | DhaGeTiraKita | DhiNaGeNa | DhaGeTeTe |
| DhaGeNaDha | TiraKitaDheTe | DhaGeTiraKita | TinNaKiNa |
| TaaKeTete | TaaKeTiraKita | TinNaKeNa | TaaKeTeTe |
| DhaGeNaDha | TiraKitaDheTe | DhaGeTiraKita | DhiNaGeNa |
It's also in the Jerry Leake tabla book ... It's a Farukhabad kaida, attributed to Ustad Masit Khan (father of Ustad Keramatullah Khan). According to Leake it's reverse "TeTe" all the way through.

I couldn't help but notice that the phrase above in bold exactly form a Benares Kaida also in Leakes' book!



PB

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Nastika

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "TablaBeatz"
@Nastika - yes that is an interesting kaida. Just to clarify - are you suggesting to play ALL Tete's in the kaida in reverse format?

@Greg - did you forget to underline the final tite? I think for the bols 'trkit tite' it would make sense to play reverse tete
Yes, I feel all of the 'Tete's in this kaida should be reversed. Though it is the phrase ''TireKitaTeTe' that benefits from this, just as you have noted; I feel its best to apply that fingering to all them for continuity & fluidity.

Also, as Pascal added, it is a traditional Farukhabad kaida; as such, I have been playing it with split hand 'TeTe' and 'TiraKita'. I think this is the right approach and certainly seems, at least to me, to convey an inherent strength and forcefullness (for lack of a better word) that seems to fit the composition best.
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Greg

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Nastika"
Yes, I feel all of the 'Tete's in this kaida should be reversed.
Yes, you are of course correct, my mistake...
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Nastika"
as Pascal added, it is a traditional Farukhabad kaida
In my notes it says "Ajrara Baj"... :?
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Nastika"
One small difference in the version I have is that the single 'Tete' in lines 2 & 4 has a 'Ga' added to form 'DheTe',
Yes, when I look back at my notes it is "Dhete", my original post was from memory.. :roll:
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Nastika"
an inherent strength and forcefullness (for lack of a better word) that seems to fit the composition best.
Agreed, try this palta with a rising crescendo on the "Dhete"'s

Dhage Nadha trkt Dhete Dhete Dhete Dhete Dhete
Dhage Nadha trkt Dhete Dhage Nadha trkt Dhete

8)

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pbercker

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Greg"
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Nastika"
Yes, I feel all of the 'Tete's in this kaida should be reversed.
Yes, you are of course correct, my mistake...
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Nastika"
as Pascal added, it is a traditional Farukhabad kaida
In my notes it says "Ajrara Baj"... :?
Courtney's book says it Farukhabad, attributed to Ustad Masit Khan ... but his source is Jerry Leake's book, and regretably Leake does not explicitly cite his sources. Possibly of interest might be another Farukhabad kaida, this one from Ustad Keramatullah Khan, the son of Ustad Masit Khan.

DhaTiRaKiTaDha GiNaDhaGe TinNa-Dha GiNaDhaGe
TinNaKaTa DhaTiRaKiTaDha GiNaDhaGe TinNaKiNa
+ khali

It bears a family resemblance as it were to the one by Ustad Masit Khan. It almost looks like a simpler version of it.

It's from a short book put together by Robert Gottlieb Called "42 Lessons for Tabla" illustrated with examples and performed by Ustat Keramatullah Khan. The pdf book is available for free from Smithsonian folkways. I suspect the audio is probably on youtube somewhere.

http://media.smithsonianfolkways.org/liner_notes/folkways/FW08369.pdf

This has several variation on the kaida above.



Pascal

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