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povster

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Reply with quote  #1 
So does anyone have any thoughts or esitmates as to how many vin players and students are alive? By this I mean someone whose main instrument is the rudra vin, either as a performer or as a student. (Both in India and internationally.) Not someone who mainly plays sitar, for example, but has a vin and uses their sitar ability on the it. Thanks!
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musicslug

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Reply with quote  #2 
hi Michael,

Lyle from India Archive Music sent me this, in response to some correspondence I was having with Deepak Raja on this question:

"There are a few bin players in Calcutta, who most likely play Dagar style bin - they are in their 40s/50s - and I can't think of names off-hand. (I'm guessing he's thinking of Asit Kumar Banerjee, for one - D) But, in western India, until recently their were maybe a half dozen other bin players, who, like Shamsuddin, can trace their training back to Bande Ali Khan, who was a dhrupad binkar, but think of themselves as khayal-based binkars. Bande Ali is also considered a Kirana musician, as he taught Wahid Khan & Rajab Ali Khan (Dewas)!?! There were lots of khayal-based binkars in the first 50 years of the last century. Hindraj Divekar is about 50 years old - lives in Pune - is a good bin player - from what little I've heard.

Divekar says that Bande Ali played both dhrupad and khayal baaj. His student Murad Khan was a khayal based binkar and a great musician - although Bhatkande is quoted by B. R. Deodhar as saying that he was not what Bande Ali was and that Murad did not play in the strict, conservative style of Bande Ali - and more or less disparaged Murad Khan's playing. This was around the time Deodhar arranged for Murad Khan to do what was probably the first bin radio broadcast in 1928. Murad Khan trained Krishnarao Kohlapure - whose son binkar Pandarinath might still be alive; Dattopant Pathak, whose son binkar Bindumadhav died in the past few years, but whose son Srikant, I believe is still alive - as well as female binkar Jyoti Hegde; Krishnarao Palande, who is dead years ago; and Babu Khan, whose son is Abdul Halim Jaffer Khan.

Murad Ali Khan and the Rampur dhrupad-based binkar Wazir Khan, who taught Allauddin and Hafiz Ali were at odds - a feud so to speak - because the dhrupad-based binkars belittled the khayal-based binkars. And, the khayal-based binkars belittled the dhrupad-based Rampur binkars for their concern for formal correctness and the thin whining tone of their bins. As Rajab Ali (Dewas) told Deodhar: "We pay far more attention to khayal. For Rampur been players, the technique and all that dhrupad-dhamar business are most important. We try to creat music which the audience will find entertaining and mellifuous, whereas the Rampur been players, because the play by the 'rule' sound monotonous."

This is all very good - but if you hear recordings of Dabir Khan, the last Seniya descendent of Wazir Khan, the bin tone is very round and sweet, much closer to Karnatic vina.

But, this is just the tip of the iceberg - if you read through whatever is available about the history of Indian music, you will find mention of dozens and dozens of other binkars, some whom you might have heard of, but most with no particular affiliation to bani or gharana info given about them. And, there were probably hundreds and hundreds, including the ones who were never mentioned - for whatever reasons.

Unfortunately, whatever recordings of these old binkars that exist are either old and so, very short, or more recent and a bit longer, done when the artists were very old - all have to be listened to as suggestive of what might have been. The other problem, with recordings and with written works - books, journals, diaries, reviews - is that material in private hands seems to remain there. Also, what has been written in English, only touches the surface - there is material both in public hands and private in Gujarati, Marathi, Bengali, Punjabi and no doubt other languages, that were privately printed in very small runs - and that often don't even appear in the most extensive and complete bibliographies - because researchers don't know they exist. There is an enourmous amount of work in research, collection, translation and analysis to be done. There is SO MUCH material out there."

that being said, it's not too hard to get a sense of how many europeans, n. americans, etc. (non-Indians) there are who qualify by your criteria.

my teacher Jeff has a long-term student named Andrew in Canada (he's a stand-up bassist too, but is serious about vina) in addition to myself (10 years).

there's a very good player in Israel, Dudu Elkabir (lots of stuff on youtube, which doesn't do him justice - I think he's quite good), a student of Bahauddin Dagar

the rest you probably know: Peter Row, Peter Hennix (Sweden - studied with Z.M.Dagar), Glynn Snellgrove (Germany). Phillipe Bruguiere (France - not sure how active he is nowadays). Peter Weismiller (Whidbey Island - used to play, I'm not sure if he's still playing...).

I hope this is helpful to you.

Daniel
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cwroyds

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Reply with quote  #3 
Dont forget our very own Beekar Suvir Misra.
(And our friend Povster who is taking that journey too.)
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bishoke sil

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Reply with quote  #4 
at present, in kolkata(calcutta) and even in west bengal,there exists only one veenkar ie,pandit ashit bandopadhya,dagar gharana.mrs bandopadhya is also a beenkar,rarely plats in public.
after that high profile name,you may keep my name,who regularly performs(good or bad), rudraveena.
one german girl just started learning from ostd bahauddin. the german couple is residing in kolkata for the last 4 years.
this is so far i know. for your record:::
but there were great veenkars in kolkata and suburbs,ostd dabir khan, birendra kishore roy chowdhury,the mastereo.
bkrc, my guru,was master of rabab,surasringer,surbaharetc but famous for rudraveena. many great artists we see now a days were the student of bkrc. bkrc,(1904_1973) is almost a forgotten name now.
in our residence,bkrc had founded SENI SANGEET SABHA, and he was the first president, my elder brother dr arun sil was the secretary. in 2005, that was revived again. we are organising at least 4 classical meet here.
sri shekhar halder now leaves in south india.
there were many great artists, but now, they are not in touch, due to old age.
bishoke.
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Surbaharplayer

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Reply with quote  #5 
Last month Ust. Bahauddin Dagar stayed here in Holland, teaching Marianne Svasek (vocal) and Yourstruly (Rudraveena), and also taught at the Rotterdam Conservatorium. He told me the interest in veena has never been better; almost at every concert he gives there are people interested in getting and or studying veena. Last winter, when Marianne was in India, she noticed she was the only vocal student at the gurukul, being outnumbered by 4 veenastudents...

I know Bahauddin has students in Israel, Greece (and I'm the only one in Holland).

I asked Bahauddin how many beenkars he knew and he told me he knows about 9 players.

Sadly enough, Bahauddin told me that Peter Hennix passed away recently so I'm afraid he can be taken of the list
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CarnaticConnection

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Reply with quote  #6 
Oh what terrible news! We should all count ourselves lucky, however, that we got to hear his fantastic veena playing, and that we are able to hear recordings of Baba Kalgilal Maharaj because of his dedication and hard work in the ICM field. He will always be remembered. Blessings upon him and his family in this difficult time. :|
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panchamkauns

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Peter Hennix (Sweden - studied with Z.M.Dagar)
This guy did fusion

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povster

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "panchamkauns"
Quote:
Peter Hennix (Sweden - studied with Z.M.Dagar)
This guy did fusion
He also did traditional ICM on the vin. :?:

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Dasani - the official bottled water of ICM
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Surbaharplayer

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "panchamkauns"
Quote:
Peter Hennix (Sweden - studied with Z.M.Dagar)
This guy did fusion
I've got one CD from Peter Hennix. He uses synths and non-indian struments as well, but what he plays on veena is not what I'd consider "fusion"....

I like the CD a lot. One of the things I like (aside of the music) is he used a different veena on each track; nice to hear the differences.
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bishoke sil

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Reply with quote  #10 
sorry to know about the passing away of peter da.
i met him at the drupad mela, benaras, last year.
pt. asit bandopadhya was so happy to see him,he pulled warmly in his chest.
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