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barend

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Reply with quote  #16 
would like to see that!
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yussef ali k

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Reply with quote  #17 
Hi, all.

Barend,

Interesting picture.
I noticed people - mostly students, though not only - talking about a
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barend

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Quote:
Originally Posted by "yussef
P.S.: Well done, Barend: All BEST for your gorgeous new sitar (hi-fret or otherwise)!
Thanks. It will be send this week. I am really curious how it feels and sounds. That first moment when you hold and play it says a thousand things...
No high Pa fret on it Btw.

I understand what you are saying about the extra fret. A lot a things can be done with meend. I was not talking about pure convenience though but more about extending the range and possibilities of high register sitar playing. When you try to play along with that Imrat Khan recording you will notice that certain things and tans are unplayable on the high Ga or Ma fret (try playing the high re for example). The thought about the high pa fret was purely generated by this recording. Never heard something like this on sitar before. Especially in rags that don't have a Ma (like Bhupali, Kalavati or Handsadhwani) this extra Pa fret will extent the possibilities.
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barend

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Reply with quote  #19 
Digging up this topic again. A few years ago I was experimenting with a high extra Pa fret. I liked the extra possibilities it gave me. But in in the end I removed it after a few weeks because the extra fret got in the way of my right hand. That was something I didn't think about. Maybe I try it again some day because I like the concept. That high Pa makes sense.

This week I also saw some Anoushka Shankar videos and photos where she also had the extra fret on her sitar.

So what do you all think? Is there a future for the Pa fret? Did you try it once?
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Lars

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by barend
Digging up this topic again. A few years ago I was experimenting with a high extra Pa fret. I liked the extra possibilities it gave me. But in in the end I removed it after a few weeks because the extra fret got in the way of my right hand. That was something I didn't think about. Maybe I try it again some day because I like the concept. That high Pa makes sense.

This week I also saw some Anoushka Shankar videos and photos where she also had the extra fret on her sitar.

So what do you all think? Is there a future for the Pa fret? Did you try it once?


Anil Halder makes the entire body that Anoushka is using, on a KP style there is usually room for a PA fret as the design allows it. Most others don't allow, Mohan Lals are like this often as well and no issues with the right hand. If there's room and it works then I think it's a great idea....

Lars

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barend

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Originally Posted by Lars


Anil Halder makes the entire body that Anoushka is using, on a KP style there is usually room for a PA fret as the design allows it. Most others don't allow, Mohan Lals are like this often as well and no issues with the right hand. If there's room and it works then I think it's a great idea....

Lars


Are these body's you mention different in size and distance from the neck than other KP sitars?. I have a Hari Chand and Barun Roy KP sitar. Shouldn't make that much difference as far as the high Pa is concerned I guess?

What is important is that you have to shift your whole right arm a few inches to the right because there is less room from body to last fret. This makes the balance, feel and sound different.
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barend

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Reply with quote  #22 
I now see that Anoushka sitar on your website. To me it seems like the whole fret layout is shifted more to the left so there is much more room between the last fret and body than on most other sitars? Or is the neck just longer?
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barend

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Reply with quote  #23 
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Originally Posted by Lars


Anil Halder makes the entire body that Anoushka is using, on a KP style there is usually room for a PA fret as the design allows it. Most others don't allow, Mohan Lals are like this often as well and no issues with the right hand. If there's room and it works then I think it's a great idea....

Lars


This one also seems to have the frets shifted towards the left. Is that correct?
http://www.raincitymusic.com/mohanlalsitar.htm
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Lars

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Reply with quote  #24 
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Originally Posted by barend


This one also seems to have the frets shifted towards the left. Is that correct?
http://www.raincitymusic.com/mohanlalsitar.htm


They look straight to me?

Lars

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barend

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Originally Posted by Lars


They look straight to me?

Lars


I mean that the whole fret layout is shifted to the left so there is more room between the last fret and the body than on other sitars. Just like the Anoushka sitar. So that means there is room for the high pa fret. Is that correct?
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Sanjeeb

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Reply with quote  #26 

Allow me to share an experience related many years ago by a senior person (I trust it is true but can't vouch).  

Ustad Vilayat Khan and Pandit Ravi Shankar played a duet concert in Delhi in the mid nineteenth century. It was a charged atmosphere as the spirit of competitiveness was strong. Pt. Ravi Shankar had put those high frets on his sitar and during the playing was pulling off those high notes which Ust. Vilayat Khan didnt have.  So he, (Ust. Vilayat Khan) picked up his metal oil container, used for applying oil on the fingers, and used it to slide on the string as in a Hawaiian or bottle neck guitar to get those higher notes. A section of the audience went bananas !

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Lars

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Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by barend


I mean that the whole fret layout is shifted to the left so there is more room between the last fret and the body than on other sitars. Just like the Anoushka sitar. So that means there is room for the high pa fret. Is that correct?


It's not the whole layout but it starts in the middle area, that's why there is room for the fret. It's quite comfortable to play this way.

Lars

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barend

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Originally Posted by Lars


It's not the whole layout but it starts in the middle area, that's why there is room for the fret. It's quite comfortable to play this way.

Lars


Not sure what you mean. How can the middle area be different than on other sitars?
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Lars

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Reply with quote  #29 
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Originally Posted by barend


Not sure what you mean. How can the middle area be different than on other sitars?


There are different ways of placing sympathetic pegs. You can look at the full length pictures and see the difference.

Look at this Mohan Lal: http://raincitymusic.com/mohanlalfulldectunsitar/mlfulldectunfull.jpg
While there isn't a high PA fret on it there's plenty of room.

Compare to Barun: http://raincitymusic.com/zhirenroy/zhrfull.jpg
Different peg layout, no room for a high PA fret.

Maybe 2 subjects here going on at once, you had mentioned frets being to the left. If you compare the 2 sitars in 2 windows, the pictures are the same size. Basically the same length but the way of fitting has left less room for a high fret on the Barun. Most sitars are made like this for just the ati MA fret which is what we're all used to.
I think ati PA is a good idea personally but takes awhile to get used to, easier to get the high SA on meend.

Lars





Lars

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barend

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars


There are different ways of placing sympathetic pegs. You can look at the full length pictures and see the difference.

Look at this Mohan Lal: http://raincitymusic.com/mohanlalfulldectunsitar/mlfulldectunfull.jpg
While there isn't a high PA fret on it there's plenty of room.

Compare to Barun: http://raincitymusic.com/zhirenroy/zhrfull.jpg
Different peg layout, no room for a high PA fret.

Maybe 2 subjects here going on at once, you had mentioned frets being to the left. If you compare the 2 sitars in 2 windows, the pictures are the same size. Basically the same length but the way of fitting has left less room for a high fret on the Barun. Most sitars are made like this for just the ati MA fret which is what we're all used to.
I think ati PA is a good idea personally but takes awhile to get used to, easier to get the high SA on meend.

Lars


ok thanks Lars! I understand what you are saying with the sympathetic pegs.
But if the scale length (from bridge to nut) of both Barun R and Mohan L is the same the frets should be at about the same distance on both sitars if you want correct intonation? Or is the bridge position different also?
I still don't understand where the extra room for the Pa fret comes from.
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