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BrokenSoul

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "scodoha"
Too bad there's not such a thing as a subjectivity Guru. One's opinion is necessarily subjective. One should try to express it in a non-dogmatic fashion.
We all have to work with what we have in the times and place we live. Traditional teaching methods are simply not present in the culture the original questioner lives. Every avenue of instruction can be explored if they exist including the most obvious one, the self. While the Guru-shishya relationship may be a wonderful thing be thankful at least that the fate of Eklavya is not our common situation, even though he seemed to have learned pretty well without the physical presence of the Guru, at least until... well you know the rest of the story I suppose.
One of the most asked questions here is how to tell a good tabla. I'm still waiting for a good answer but I suppose the sound quality would be the best answer. Good construction would seem to obviously support the sound. A lighter or heavier head would be a preference of the player and of the style which goes back to the instructor's opinion. Knowing what poor construction is helps to avoid the real dogs, or dogs with their mouths full of arrows.


It is well and truly my opinion based on my personal and subjective experiences in learning the Tabla which holds that e-learning the Tabla can not supplant learning from a Guru who can be physically present which in turn can not supplant learning under the traditional Gurukul system. I don’t intend it to be a dogma; you are free to disagree with me.

The absence of traditional teaching methods in a culture does not automatically imply that those methods or the rewards they afford the practitioner can be fully supplanted by technological innovations. I personally don’t fancy the idea of learning Tabla online. I will feel extremely disappointed if my teacher were to start conducting our sessions over the internet and will feel like the soul of my learning experience has been taken away. And so I won’t advocate e-learning the Tabla to a serious student. If there is really no other option, then to my way of thinking, the student will do well to bear in mind the limitations inherent in this method of learning and to eventually find a good teacher who can actually be around.

Also, from my own personal experiences playing the Tabla, and from the literature that I have read on Indian Classical music, I have come to experience and understand glimpses of its extraordinary depth and so I have serious reservations whether the teacher can bring his student in contact with this depth over the wire.

Eklavya’s story is an account on individual dedication, brilliance and sacrifice. His decision to cut off his thumb and give it to his Guru was his personal choice, again a product of his personal worship of his imaginary Guru and it does not lend itself to a blanket normative judgment of the Guru-Shishya relationship, with its myriad complexities, in the Indian classical tradition of learning and playing music.

The fact that he mastered archery without even being a student of Dronacharya is a tribute to his unrelenting dedication and commitment to the art. It goes to show how single-minded fortitude can obliterate the hardest of obstacles, it does not show that distance-learning does not create obstacles!

I also feel that only an archer as proficient as Eklavya could have given off his thumb without a second thought, because if he wasn’t as dedicated to his imaginary Guru, dedicated enough to give away his thumb that is, he probably couldn’t have become proficient enough to evoke feelings of insecurity in Dronacharya towards Arjun.

I hope you find an answer to your query regarding the quality of Tabla. Personally I have found that practicing long hours, the odd dog notwithstanding, is far more rewarding than worrying about the construction or sound quality of the Tabla.
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rajpuranik

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
It is well and truly my opinion based on my personal and subjective experiences in learning the Tabla which holds that e-learning the Tabla can not supplant learning from a Guru who can be physically present.... I personally don’t fancy the idea of learning Tabla online. I will feel extremely disappointed if my teacher were to start conducting our sessions over the internet and will feel like the soul of my learning experience has been taken away. And so I won’t advocate e-learning the Tabla to a serious student.
BrokenSoul, are you interested in the experience of the gurukul system, or in actually learning the tabla? If your opinion is that you will lose the "soul" of your learning experience, then that is a personal judgment and I can't argue with that.

But most music training these days is a practical compromise for the busy times we live in. The "soul" of the experience aside, what ultimately counts IMHO is the end result - can you play tabla well after all those lessons? Most of the answer depends on your own dedication to practice, not to the medium of your lessons. Practically speaking, I can give you several reasons why online learning is superior to driving to your teacher's house once a week.

- you can choose from many online teachers, versus the one who happens to be in driving distance
- you can easily video record your lesson
- eliminate the driving time, cost, and hassle
- no cancellations due to weather, traffic, etc.

Yes, these are practical considerations, but very real ones for many people. And I even dispute that you will lose the soul of the experience - when you are focused on learning music, the medium of the learning becomes very secondary to the goal of exchanging information, unless real information just can't be transmitted, which is not the case for tabla.

I started learning online two years ago, and my son started learning online one year ago, and has never met his teacher in-person yet. Yet his playing is dramatically improved since he started his private online lessons.

You can stick to your principles and wait another year or two or more for the ideal guru to move conveniently near your house. Or you can compromise your soul and start learning tabla right away. I suggest the latter.

Good luck with tabla and with college next year.

By the way, Boston has a great 4-day ICM festival in April that you should attend if you get a chance. Maybe I'll see you there.

Regards,

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Raj Puranik
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rajpuranik

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Reply with quote  #18 
Regarding my last comment above, I realized too late that BrokenSoul is not the original poster and is not going to college next year! That aside, rest of the post stands as written.

Regards,

Raj

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Raj Puranik
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Learn music online
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BrokenSoul

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "rajpuranik"
Quote:
It is well and truly my opinion based on my personal and subjective experiences in learning the Tabla which holds that e-learning the Tabla can not supplant learning from a Guru who can be physically present.... I personally don’t fancy the idea of learning Tabla online. I will feel extremely disappointed if my teacher were to start conducting our sessions over the internet and will feel like the soul of my learning experience has been taken away. And so I won’t advocate e-learning the Tabla to a serious student.
BrokenSoul, are you interested in the experience of the gurukul system, or in actually learning the tabla? If your opinion is that you will lose the "soul" of your learning experience, then that is a personal judgment and I can't argue with that.

But most music training these days is a practical compromise for the busy times we live in. The "soul" of the experience aside, what ultimately counts IMHO is the end result - can you play tabla well after all those lessons? Most of the answer depends on your own dedication to practice, not to the medium of your lessons. Practically speaking, I can give you several reasons why online learning is superior to driving to your teacher's house once a week.

- you can choose from many online teachers, versus the one who happens to be in driving distance
- you can easily video record your lesson
- eliminate the driving time, cost, and hassle
- no cancellations due to weather, traffic, etc.

Yes, these are practical considerations, but very real ones for many people. And I even dispute that you will lose the soul of the experience - when you are focused on learning music, the medium of the learning becomes very secondary to the goal of exchanging information, unless real information just can't be transmitted, which is not the case for tabla.

I started learning online two years ago, and my son started learning online one year ago, and has never met his teacher in-person yet. Yet his playing is dramatically improved since he started his private online lessons.

You can stick to your principles and wait another year or two or more for the ideal guru to move conveniently near your house. Or you can compromise your soul and start learning tabla right away. I suggest the latter.

Good luck with tabla and with college next year.

By the way, Boston has a great 4-day ICM festival in April that you should attend if you get a chance. Maybe I'll see you there.

Regards,

Raj Puranik,

What I have said is very simple. All else being equal, learning under the Gurukul system is more effective than learning a few times each week under a Guru who is physically present, which is more effective than learning from the same Guru over the internet. This is not a mathematical theorem that I am looking to prove, it's an empirical notion that I have because of my experiences as student of Tabla and my experiences with the internet.

I learn from my teacher in person and am very happy with the arrangement that we have made. There is not a chance in hell I would even consider learning from my teacher online. The way I see it, learning online is a compromise made necessary by the absence of good teachers in a particular Geo-location.

While I won't enter into a point by point debate on the superiority of one medium of learning over the other, I do know that online interactions limit the level of involvement between the participants and hence the effectiveness of knowledge transmission. I have found this to be generally true; in fact the same can be applied to the present discussion on this forum.

Therefore, I have advised the initiator of this thread to search for a good teacher in his vicinity asap. Since you are of the notion that online learning is superior, you are free to advocate the same.
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scodoha

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Posts: 302
Reply with quote  #20 
There might even be the circumstance where learning through direct personal instruction would be more preferable than a more effective electronic mediated method; and to push it even further, would you be satisfied with the instruction if it were an absolutely believable physical reality administered through a socket in the back of your head? Red pill or blue? I hope you're not missing the reference.
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rajpuranik

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Posts: 116
Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Having said that, if there is truly no good teacher in one's area, online learning is probably the best thing to go for.
Given the fact that the OP has already ruled out in-person lessons (being 70 miles from Boston and the nearest teacher), we are left with BrokenSoul's earlier statement above, with which I am in full agreement.

On the general effectiveness of online (live) learning, we'll just have to agree to disagree. After one year of running my website, not a single new student has been less than thrilled with the opportunity to learn online (except one, whose teacher had an unreliable Internet connection in India). One or two even have in-person gurus and supplement their lessons with online ones. As with any new technology, only time will tell the true impact on society.

By the way, regarding your remark about students sitting in front of a computer all day with tutors, I'm sure there are many home-schooled children already doing this to a limited extent. Not good for socialization with peers, but I'm sure they can learn just fine over the internet.

Regards,

__________________
Raj Puranik
http://worldmusicguru.com
Learn music online
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s1owpoke

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Posts: 102
Reply with quote  #22 
Hmmmm....music is supposed to bring us together in harmony and not create arguments or displaying of ego. We all have different living situations so what is available to one may not be to another. Best is to live with your guru and practice 12 hours a day and least is to own tabla and never play. I think most people are somewhere in between and try their best according to what they have.

The love for the music and the experience you gain from playing is most important. :wink:

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S1owpoke

"Real music is not for wealth, not for honours or even the joys of the mind... but as a path for realization and salvation."
Ustad Ali Akbar Khan
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deeplib77

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Posts: 27
Reply with quote  #23 
Please isit Vsvm.com and let me know the feed back ....
There is more to come cos this is just the start and nothing elese...

Swaiting your reply................

Regards
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Makwah

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Posts: 13
Reply with quote  #24 
There is always more than one path to the top of the mountain. I agree having a teacher is necessary, to learn the correct approach. Though, each teachers techniques and ways of instruction, will likely have some differences. What are your intentions for learning tabla? For meditation, for use in western music, chances are it is not in becoming CIM performer, thats where I think the thread has gone off track. It is not for us to judge, but to suggest, not to preach, but to teach. Music in all its forms should be fun, not dogmatic. Megwitch!
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hbajpai

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Posts: 892
Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Makwah"
There is always more than one path to the top of the mountain. I agree having a teacher is necessary, to learn the correct approach. Though, each teachers techniques and ways of instruction, will likely have some differences. What are your intentions for learning tabla? For meditation, for use in western music, chances are it is not in becoming CIM performer, thats where I think the thread has gone off track. It is not for us to judge, but to suggest, not to preach, but to teach. Music in all its forms should be fun, not dogmatic. Megwitch!
Amen brother!
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deeplib77

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Posts: 27
Reply with quote  #26 
In my Belief the following points should make a Good tabla.

1. The head should not be too thik as to it will need lot more energy for playing.
2. The aas ( Resonance) of a correctely tuned Tabls should be atleast for about 2 or more seconds.
3. The Tunning of the Tabla both on the Chaati or Kinar and on the Luv should be correct.
4. The hear should not really be pulled from the rim of the tabla.
5. Once tuned the vaadi should be able to hold the Puri to the tuned note.

With all this i beliveit should make a good tabla.

Regards
Deep
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