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CheesecakeTomek

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hello all,

I just attended a fantastic vocal concert of Kaivalaya Kumar, featuring Sham Kane on tabla. During their performance of Kirwani, I am almost positive about identifying the tal to be a 20-beat cycle broken down into
4+4+2+4+4+2, with kali on the third 4-beat section. Being a sitar student of just one year, I have not been introduced to more than just the most common tals so far, and have not been able to find this one in any of my available sources. Can anyone confirm this observation, or perhaps correct me? Any insight is much appreciated.

Cheers,
Tomek
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jaan e kharabat

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Reply with quote  #2 
Get close to the performers afterwards and ask them. Best way to start a conversation with them.

I know it is not much help to you now, but for next time.

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If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?
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sohummusicals

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "CheesecakeTomek"
Hello all,

I just attended a fantastic vocal concert of Kaivalaya Kumar, featuring Sham Kane on tabla. During their performance of Kirwani, I am almost positive about identifying the tal to be a 20-beat cycle broken down into
4+4+2+4+4+2, with kali on the third 4-beat section. Being a sitar student of just one year, I have not been introduced to more than just the most common tals so far, and have not been able to find this one in any of my available sources. Can anyone confirm this observation, or perhaps correct me? Any insight is much appreciated.

Cheers,
Tomek
I dont have much knowledge of Raga, but the songs from this particular raga(kirwani) are played in Keharwa or Dadra.

--

Upendra
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Swara

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Reply with quote  #4 
Most likely it could be an obscure pakhawaj Tal. You have several Tals with a 20 beat cycle.

Virpanch Tal - Vijay Tal - Abhinandan Tal - Gajarisch Tal - Grahagrah Tal - Mahasen Tal - Mahavraj Tal - Manmath Tal - Mithilesh Tal - SudarshanTal -Varanamanthika Tal - Ganesh Tal - Krishna Tal - Arjun Tal

Unfortunally none of them are devided in 4+4+2+4+4+2
Could it be a 10 beat cycle? But here also I don't know a Tal devided as 4+4+2.
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CheesecakeTomek

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Reply with quote  #5 
Thanks for all your replies.

After a good night's rest, it took me but five seconds to realize that what I heard could very well have been a slow, finely subdivided jhaptal:

4+{4+2}|4+{4+2} translating into:
2+3|2+3

kali the being on the sixth beat rather than eleven, this seems to be the most likely case.

As for the comment about which tal is likely to be used for kirwani, I was pretty sure that when Pt. Kumar announced the raga he said kirwani, but I am not ignorant to the fact that I misunderstood him. Either way it was one that I had no previous familiarity with.

Anyways, thanks again for contributions to my pondering.

Cheers,
Tomek
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fuenme

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Reply with quote  #6 
Hello,

It could have also been Sultal 10 beats:

Dha dha | dhi ta | tete dha | tete kata | gedhi gena


It is just the theka and it may sound, with some trkts instead of tetes, as you have heard that.

daud

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Swara

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "fuenme"
Hello,

It could have also been Sultal 10 beats:

Dha dha | dhi ta | tete dha | tete kata | gedhi gena


It is just the theka and it may sound, with some trkts instead of tetes, as you have heard that.

daud
I don't think so,fuenme. Sultal is a typical pakhawaj tal and is used in the Dhrupad style.
Kaivalaya Kumar is a Khyaal singer ,for a Raag in 10 beats he rather prefer Jhaptal
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CheesecakeTomek

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Reply with quote  #8 
Well, to put this topic to rest, I had the treat of last night's performers coming in to my ethnomusicology class today to do a bit of a workshop with us on vocal music, where they led us through a bhandish written by Pt. Kumar's father. Anyways, I was able to talk to Sham Kane for a bit afterwards, and confirmed that it was indeed a slow jhaptal, and the raga was megh. So there we go.
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mbsobat

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "fuenme"
Hello,

It could have also been Sultal 10 beats:

Dha dha | dhi ta | tete dha | tete kata | gedhi gena


It is just the theka and it may sound, with some trkts instead of tetes, as you have heard that.

daud
hmm, may be. Anyway, how are you bro? long time no see!
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fuenme

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "mbsobat"
Quote:
Originally Posted by "fuenme"
Hello,

It could have also been Sultal 10 beats:

Dha dha | dhi ta | tete dha | tete kata | gedhi gena


It is just the theka and it may sound, with some trkts instead of tetes, as you have heard that.

daud
hmm, may be. Anyway, how are you bro? long time no see!
Hi mbsobat,
I am fine thanks for asking. I hope you are also fine and doing well. I have been busy with moving that I had told you. It is almost finished only the dots on the i and that is it. I have always hated the moving, shifting from one house to an other and ever will. Ustad has again a concert in the coming weeks. I will forward the mail to you.

How is going with tabla and lessons? I have not practiced for almost a month, no time and that is why I am feely alittle empty and guilty. Hopefully I get the time from next week on to practice again.

We'll be in touch

Take care

greetings

daud

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