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trippy monkey

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Reply with quote  #16 
Ravi says,in his MARVELLOUSLY entertaining Raga Mala autobiography, about being accused by his peers/superiors in India of playing Neopolitan Banjo when he was in the west.

It just goes to show what influences we all pick up or feel we have to use to present ourselves to particular types of audience.

Ravi says he couldn't play in the west, certainly at the start of his 'career' there, as he would for an Indian audience.

How true are we being to ourselves/gurus/traditions if we alter, sometimes permanently, our 'visions'?

Aren't we all, technically, playing our own gharana/creation?

Are we creating/recreating ourselves as we go along anyway, regardless as to how we do it?


Is/are our guru(s) our only stepping-stone to success/failure.
I was never taught Etawah but picked it up a few years into learning. Niether of my first 2 teachers played like that.

Nick
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Drew

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Reply with quote  #17 
quick question to those against the use of the 3rd finger...

If I want to do a hammer on/pull off from low Pa to Dha#(sorry but I cant remember the indian term for #/b ) or bPa to Dha lets say,,, my 2nd finger just cant reach. In fact, on some days my 3rd finger can barely reach. So, if I want to play that Pa-Dha# combo I must use either my 3rd finger or pinky.

What do you guys do in this case?

do you just not play that combo of notes? (that would be a shame because it is a tastey combo)

do some of you have spider fingers that can reach that far?

Im just curious how you go about getting around those certain note combo's that are just out of range of your 2nd finger?

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Joshua Feinberg

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Reply with quote  #18 
hi drew,

there is no dha#. the only sharp in hindustani music is ma, the 4th. its called tivra ma. all other notes only have 2 positions- natural or shuddha, or flat or komal. if your speaking of dha sharp, you're probably refering to komal ni.

the gharana i hail from allows the ring finger. if you don't have a teacher, then decide for yourself what you want to do. if you do have a teacher, just listen to what he tells you.

best,

jf

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Drew

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Naad
hi drew,

there is no dha#. the only sharp in hindustani music is ma, the 4th. its called tivra ma. all other notes only have 2 positions- natural or shuddha, or flat or komal. if your speaking of dha sharp, you're probably refering to komal ni.

the gharana i hail from allows the ring finger. if you don't have a teacher, then decide for yourself what you want to do. if you do have a teacher, just listen to what he tells you.

best,

jf
ya, I knew I was off on the terms. komal ni was what I was going for.

but what if your teacher says to use the 2nd finger only but, you just cant reach? will they allow the use of the 3rd finger?

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adunc069

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Reply with quote  #20 
Drew you're going to do a pull-off from tivra Ma to ni komal? I don't know of a rag that would require this motion, but if you're making up something new, do what you have to do. i've seen a female student of Ustadji's use her third finger from low dha to middle sa, but that's because she has small hands. What rag are you playing when you need to do such a large gap, or where you just asking that question just to ask it? :?
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Drew

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "adunc069"
Drew you're going to do a pull-off from tivra Ma to ni komal? I don't know of a rag that would require this motion, but if you're making up something new, do what you have to do. i've seen a female student of Ustadji's use her third finger from low dha to middle sa, but that's because she has small hands. What rag are you playing when you need to do such a large gap, or where you just asking that question just to ask it? :?

well, as you all know I do mostly my own thing ..... so this isnt from a raga per'say but, Im sure there is a raga out there that has those notes within it.

however, it would be either from Pa to Ni komal or tivra Ma (thats Pa flat right?) to Dha

Mainly its from tivra Ma (Pa flat) to Dha . But I do use the same "formula" on other notes. Basically, your just hitting every 4th note. 1-4-7-9-12-15-18 I will explain..

the scale I use this with is from a jazz type scale, dont ask the name cause I just dont know. Its from some off the wall Gerry Garcia stuff and was used in the Alman Brothers - Elizabeth Reed tune (using same scale but different notes) . Its a pretty hard and unusual scale for guitar but, it looks very fancy when playing on the guitar :wink:

Tivra Ma (Pa flat - first fret), Dha (4th fret), Sa (7th fret), Komal ga (9th fret), Tivra ma (Pa flat - 12th fret) , dha (15th fret), sa (18th fret)

An excersize I use with it, and sounds pretty cool is...

(starting from high sa, going lower to Tivra Ma)

sa, dha, Tiv ma, dha, Tiv ma, Kom ga, Tiv ma, Kom ga, Sa, Kom ga, Sa, Dha, Sa, Dha, Tiv Ma


Just your normal pattern/phrase using different notes outside the major scale giving it a jazzy type sound. The faster you play it, the better it sounds. Well, to me anyways. and you can see that when you hit those lower notes, there are some big stretches.

Hopefully I havent messed up the komals/tivras or fret#'s but, I think its right? (I stopped taking lessons a while ago to work on my playing skills and I just dont study the theory stuff like I should so Im very rusty and unsure of certain indian terms,please bare with me.. Im just an ignorant westerner guitarist)

Maybe some of the ICM schollars out there can tell which raga this may be?

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nysitar

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Reply with quote  #22 
Typically, sitar players from the Etawah gharana do not use
the third finger on the frets.

However, I observed Budhaditya Mukherjee use his
third finger a few years
ago, and asked him about it. His reply was that he pulls six note
meends (as opposed to five note meends that are common today).
Using the third finger gives him greater control.
It sounds like a reasonable technique.

Something to think about!
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sitarman

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Posts: 599
Reply with quote  #23 
Drew, Here is an interesting way to think about your "doing your own thing". When you are doing your own thing and not playing in the context of traditional raga, then you are already not following the traditions or rules anyway, so who is going to care if you use even four fingers- like a guitar player? The whole concept of these traditionally taught fingerings assumes that you are playing the accepted and understood ICM. It's kind of like asking if it's OK to use guitar picks or fingerpicks if it sounds and works for you. It's not traditional sitar technique, and you wouldn't do it in a traditional setting. Likewise, the hammer on from tivra ma to komal ni would never come up in any raga I know of so it is academic to concern yoursaelf over it. Now, having said that, if a player is a good, serious sitar player and because of hand size (as mentioned earlier) has to use the ring finger on long stretches, I don't see any other choice and I can't imagine even a guru forbidding it.
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