INDIAN MUSIC FORUMS

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adunc069

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Posts: 316
Reply with quote  #31 
I gotta say, nothin beats a gharam lookin lady in in a sari
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The Rover

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Posts: 78
Reply with quote  #32 
Wow, now im confused...i agree 100 percent with Keshav's first post, but the second one is odd..
Quote:
What is the connection to music and fashion? They are both about esthetics. If a person's sense of the visual is so lacking and uninformed - it's a pretty good indication that the depth of his understanding of music will be comparable.
I disagree
Quote:
It's never difficult to tell apart those who are in the audience to see from those who are there to be seen. Go to concerts and see Subbanker Bannerjee, Tanmoy Bose and Ramesh Mishra sitting together wearing blue jeans, clean sneakers and Izod shirts and in the next row are grocery store owners and insurance salesman wearing expensive silk Nehru jackets, perfectly tailored churi and $300.00 shoes .
uh, so does this mean that someone who has good taste and money to by 300.00 shoes is therefore incapable of understanding music? Or is it that Shubhankar banerjee surely can't play tabla very well because he wears jeans?

This is completely asinine...unless I am missing something...but this entire discussion has me thinking about something, but I think i may start another thread....

R

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coyootie

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Posts: 490
Reply with quote  #33 
i would like to use this line in a poem or song, is that oK?
during the Watts riots a Korean shopkeeper put up a hastily scrawled sign in his window "me a ni---r too" and was spared any harassment.
who the hell cares what you wear. we can express our inner un-togetherness many ways besides clothing! what we think and what we usually spew out of our mouths without any discretion is quite helpful for expressing this... what we wear hardly matters.
when in rome, do as the romans- remember to wear a phallocrypt on your member when visiting New Guinea up in de mountains.
when i was a small small boy of 18 living in Tamil Nadu i flopped around happily in a vaeshte and even though i am remarkably white, somehow i did it well enough that locals , in puzzlemant, would ask if I was from Brahmin family up north? dunno if they were especially clueless or i really DID have it right.
also had a very surreal experience: i had a date for tea with my wonderful surrogate daddyjee and host at the Madras Gym Club, a bastion of total honkified Anglophile Indians sighing for the Raj and its orderliness and fair play........ ahem. so i show up in proper bourgeois Tamil loincloth , angavastram and jubba after my veena lessons, and the doorman didn't know what to do, as 'native dress' was forbidden at the Club! they decided to let me in as i was after all, a pinkman, and thus worthy of honor, respect, and arsekissing. it was one of the stranger things i experienced in india , where nothing is ever strange really. the gin and tonics over tiger-skin draped termite ridden pianos and the equally moldering copies of books in the library like "Pigsticking in the Punjab"were just priceless.
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sitarman

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Posts: 599
Reply with quote  #34 
You know, assuming that every Indian thinks a white guy in a kurta is worthy of giggle is as wrong as thinking that every white guy thinks Indians shouldn't show up at an ICM concert in jeans. What I'm saying is that clothes are clothes- some people notice or deduce something from the way someone dresses, and other folks couldn't care less. For me, playing sitar in public in Indian attire seems right. I don't show up at work in them because that doesn't seem right. Period. No psychobabble nrecessary. When someone comes to hear me play (and I hope the music impresses them , not my attire) I feel that I owe it to the tradition to look the part. I can't imagine anyone laughing at me behind my back in that situation, and this thread started in that context- wearing Indian traditional clothing in a music setting. I don't wear my tux at a rock concert and I don't wear faded jeans and a jimi hendrix t-shirt at a symphony performance. I don't personally care if someone does but, again, it just doesn't fit the mood for me. So there are times and places where dressing up for the occasion does not indicate anything more than dressing up for THE OCCASION. Reading more into it is making big assumptions.
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sitarjunky

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Posts: 61
Reply with quote  #35 
I think I owe an apology to adunc069.

adunc posted an innocent question about using shaul on foot and I turned this into a discussion about 'pathetic fakers' vs. the 'real thingers'. so this discussion has been a little at his axpense.Indeed I tried to stress right on the start this is not a criticism about adunc or about anyone on the forum.....
but in retrospect maybe it was a little too borderline not to be insulting. so in any case I want to make clear - in my opinion anyway - adunc putting shaul on foot, wearing kurta and all that while performing is completely legit in my eyes.

I should have started a whole separate post about the hindubullshiters a.k.a 'hindonts' or not at all.

and on a more personal note to adunc069: Bhen ke takke choostia

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rex@sitar.co.za

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Posts: 674
Reply with quote  #36 
Hey guys...

Without wading too deep into the mire, here are a few simple observations:

Most Indian men (in India) wear western clothing, and have done so for generations. Indian clothes are usually reserved for formal occaisions or for relaxing on the weekends at home. In my experience, "Hello" is as Indian as word as "Namaste" and there are millions of Indians who grow up speaking English as a home language in addition to their regional languages. Many of my Indian friends speak English much better than I do. The very best Rock guitarist I've *ever* seen live was an Indian session musician playing Iron Maiden cover songs in a small nightclub in Bombay - at one point he did a jaw-dropping solo playing the guitar with a power saw...!

Cheers!
- Rex
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trippy monkey

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Posts: 4,281
Reply with quote  #37 
Drew

I actually agree to some point with you but will not rise to any of your bait :wink:
I've known so many in my area that do as you said you dislike & I feel the same. It's this pretention when there's no real knowledge there that gets me too.

Sitarman
Spot on about creating a mood.

At least one very good musician in Varanasi didn't want me to video him playing his sarangi in his T-shirt as it wasn't the 'correct' garb. I did get some footage though.

Whenever I watched an ICM performance anywhere I don't recall giving a toss about what the musicians were wearing. Only about what their music did for me.

Nuff Sed

Nick
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Anonymous

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Posts: 987
Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "The
Wow, now im confused...i agree 100 percent with Keshav's first post, but the second one is odd..
Quote:
What is the connection to music and fashion? They are both about esthetics. If a person's sense of the visual is so lacking and uninformed - it's a pretty good indication that the depth of his understanding of music will be comparable.
I disagree
Quote:
It's never difficult to tell apart those who are in the audience to see from those who are there to be seen. Go to concerts and see Subbanker Bannerjee, Tanmoy Bose and Ramesh Mishra sitting together wearing blue jeans, clean sneakers and Izod shirts and in the next row are grocery store owners and insurance salesman wearing expensive silk Nehru jackets, perfectly tailored churi and $300.00 shoes .
uh, so does this mean that someone who has good taste and money to by 300.00 shoes is therefore incapable of understanding music? Or is it that Shubhankar banerjee surely can't play tabla very well because he wears jeans?

This is completely asinine...unless I am missing something...but this entire discussion has me thinking about something, but I think i may start another thread....

R
It's about the jarringly narccistic quality of people who are more focused on how a bunch of strangers view them than they are with actually enjoying the music. It's about the fact that the guys who live and breath ICM - are not worried about creating a facade. It wasn't about dissing folks who like to dress up tastefully. It's about being pretentious and ostentatious - the adjectives that comes to mind when I see Westerners trying to go native in the USA. It's that false note being struck - that makes them look like they dressed up for a costume ball and went to the wrong party.
K
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nautchwali

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Posts: 75
Reply with quote  #39 
Wow, what a thread! Yeah, I was thinking that Adam was probably wondering how all these wormy issues got all entangled in his spiffy shawl. But, I'm glad you like ladies in saris. :wink:

Just another point about how attitudes about clothes go with the context: I have a good friend from Kolkata who is now a tabla player in Delhi. I've only seen him in kurta-pajama on stage and at a Bengali New Year buffet. Otherwise he always wears "shirt-pant" (ie "Western" clothing). When I was first getting to know him, I asked him: "Do you ever wear Indian clothes?" He gave me a strange look and said: "What do you mean? All my clothes are made right here in Delhi!"

Anyway, I'll blame the hippies that I can't wear my nice Lucknowi suit out for dinner. 8)
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Drew

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Posts: 214
Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "trippy
Drew

I actually agree to some point with you but will not rise to any of your bait :wink:
I've known so many in my area that do as you said you dislike & I feel the same. It's this pretention when there's no real knowledge there that gets me too.


Nick
ok Nick, and if you think Im trying to bait you Im not.
I just dont want you to think Im racist or am talking about anyone on this forum directly. I was just speaking my mind and I think it got thrown way out of context. Maybe its been too long since we have a good heated discussion it was time to play the assumption game?

I know your a guy who loves his Indian stuff and does alot of travel etc. and there is nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, I envy you to an extent and thats the difference between you and the "others" that were mentioned. Your intent is for personal gain, not for the attention from others so they think your Mr. India Swami Mantra.


Lets put it this way... and this is just for me and Im not trying to speak for anyone else.

If you dress up in indian clothing on a daily basis and can pick up a few indian instruments and make people dizzy and/or have an extensive knowledge on the subject.... You can wear anything you want and no one will every say anything cause you have earned the right to do so and can back it up.

But, if you dress up in indian clothing on a daily basis and cant play an instrument or have any vast knowledge on the subject and are a white or non-indian.... people are going to laugh a little and youre going to look a little ignorant. Im sure everyone has heard the word "Poser" before right? The intentions may be there in good standing but, you need to earn your stripes before you put them on so to speak.

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trippy monkey

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Posts: 4,281
Reply with quote  #41 
Drew
I'm glad we're still friends then.
I agree with your last post wholeheartedly. 8) Sometimes it does look as if a poster is saying that it's not acceptable to even try as we're not Indian.
You may remember my post 'What Exactly Is ICM?' that time before & what a stink that kicked up. My post was about the differences of styles but what was still considered ICM. It went into the most awful mudslinging from certain quarters who wouldn't/couldn't back up their 'arguments'.

USA based aren't you?

Keshav Bhai
On the mark again. 8)

As I may have mentioned before.
I found, when I first went to India & since, most Indians, male anyway, wear jeans etc. It's the tourists who 'dress up' so to speak. Not so here in my town. The middle aged & older all wear 'THEIR' traditional wear.
So what's the message here then?

We need only laugh at the pretentious, they've nothing to offer.

Nick
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