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element-82

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Reply with quote  #16 
Hey Povster,
Sounds like a good idea. I'll send sitardoc a piece, caveat is that I am not 100% sure it is authentic delrin.

Pb
Quote:
Originally Posted by "povster"
Quote:
Originally Posted by "element-82"
That is possible. Sitardoc suggested that too. The only way to know is to buy a white piece.

Pb
I can't believe I missed doc's reply?!

Actually I think the only way to know is to get a piece of BLACK delrin that is for sure derin and compare.

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Hamletsghost

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Reply with quote  #17 
Sorry I couldn't post earlier - I took a scrap of delrin Tony left on my work bench & shoved it in my surface grinder on full blast - just smelled hot - no noticeable resin smell - maybe a hint of formaldehyde but that was at melting speed I don't think what you've got is Delrin - or maybe it's filled as noted before or maybe the black colorant - TK worked on dozenz of delrin bridges in my workshop even showed me how to do minor touchup as needed on my 2 sets o Delrin - I don't remember it being "spongy" when I practiced on the scrap. Get ahold of Tonyda this weekend - I'm pretty sure he's got some black - BUT he's leavin for POONTOWN monday so if you want it - NOWS THE TIME if he can - or wait a couple months.- He could also tell you if the black smells different when working - da white be fine - hope this helps.

Hamletsghost 8)

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barend

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "sitardoc"
if you're seeing a yellowish tinge there's a good chance it's hard nylon. i'd never try to jawari that stuff. too damn hard. might as well jawari a rock.
good luck!
-the doc
isn't that a good thing? the harder the material the less the jawari wears out.
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povster

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "barend"
Quote:
Originally Posted by "sitardoc"
if you're seeing a yellowish tinge there's a good chance it's hard nylon. i'd never try to jawari that stuff. too damn hard. might as well jawari a rock.
good luck!
-the doc
isn't that a good thing? the harder the material the less the jawari wears out.
I have to think not necessarily. If you wanted a rerally hard jawari at a cheap price you could make it out of a chunk of quartz or industrial grade corundum, both of which are a lot harder than bone or delrin. But my sense tells me they would not be very sweet sounding. Delrin's beauty is its self-lubricating property. It essentially reduces friction and stays the effect of the vibrating string, while providing tonal qualities desireable for the instruments.

To me, anyway, the most important quality in jawari material is its tone and ability to transmit the sound. Next would be the properties that allow the jawari to last longer.

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sitardoc

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Reply with quote  #20 
povster is right. hardness ain't the only thing governing a workable material. hard nylon is a MAJOR pain in the ass to work with. conventional bandsaws can't even cut the stuff straight. it'll heat up, slow your blade and eventually break it leaving you with a major mess. like i said-might as well try and jawari a rock. delrin isn't actually "self-lubricating. what it possesses is a trait known as "extremely high lubricity". nylon has an innate smoothness-after its polished- but it's nothing like delrin. it was, after all, first designed to replace teflon bushings in bearings because teflon was too soft and would break down too fast causing loss of time on the production line. another thing-if you can't work a material with finesse, it's worthless for a bridge. the force required to file hard nylon negates this property completely. by the time you'd get a file to bite into it you'd have little more than a filled file and a scratched-up mess instead of a workable bridge. delrin is a godsend. i've seen other synth bridge materials-i think they were hiren roy bridges which are, i believe, some sort of fiber-reinforced material. i had purchased an MKS sitar from aacm and paid for two replacement bridges. i asked for them to be filed "open". both were crap-as was the original bone bridge on the sitar. altogether an expensive waste of time. all bridges and the sitar were returned. if i need jawari, i go to TK. there's just no damn good reason to go anywhere else. and his material of choice is delrin-black awa white. stick with what works, i always say.
peace
-the doc
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element-82

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Reply with quote  #21 
I think the harder the more shrill sounding. That is not the tone I go for. Bone is probably harder than delrin or fiberglass, at least camel shin bone. There is a happy medium to strike. bone as you know groves easily due to the friction.

Pb
Quote:
Originally Posted by "barend"
Quote:
Originally Posted by "sitardoc"
if you're seeing a yellowish tinge there's a good chance it's hard nylon. i'd never try to jawari that stuff. too damn hard. might as well jawari a rock.
good luck!
-the doc
isn't that a good thing? the harder the material the less the jawari wears out.

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element-82

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Reply with quote  #22 
Update: I found some time tonight and took off the delrin jawari. The spongy sound I was describing was largely due to the fact that it was too closed. I opened it up to almost half open, like NB, and it really came to life. (ok I got a little excited with the file). I have to say the spongy sound is gone and there is a really pleasent timbre now. The sound is quite bright and a little twangy (nice). Chickari are great. Jure is great. Ma string is almost there, I need to touch up to add more sustain to the higher octave. This stuff is great. Lots of tarab response. I don't think I will put the ebony back on

Pb

Quote:
Originally Posted by "element-82"
Sound:
Initial results are promising. All the tarabs sing really nicely. The sound is full and pleasing. The timbre is not the same as ebony, so I will have to get over that part. It is very slightly spongy sounding now, but I have not finished the final touches yet. I suspect I will need to drill some holes on the underside to simulate bone or horn hollow parts. I think I will have to let it breath more so that there is room for expansion.

The base is mahogony. I will post some pics soon and maybe a sound byte or two.

Any feedback is welcome. Tips and opinions please!

thanks,
Pb

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daz199

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Reply with quote  #23 
what if you were to make a bridge entirely out of delrin...how would that affect the sound?
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Sitarfixer

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Reply with quote  #24 
- - - a 100% delrin bridge ! ? ! I could make on easy enough but I think it would look a little cheezy. Maybe black sanded delrin legs to simulate the black painted wood legs as seen on the India stock bridges to go with a white delrin top surface. That might actually look pretty good. As far as sound goes, it should be ok. I think as long as an instep is cut on the leg bottoms and a good jawari is set up, the sould should be fine. Maybe not as warm and creamy as a wood leg number but worth the effort to find out. Once I'm set up in NC, I'll get on it. Cheers !
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