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chrisitar

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Reply with quote  #16 
Is Puriya dhanashri ragas Puriya, Dhani, and Shri?
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Christianamr

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "chrisitar"
Is Puriya dhanashri ragas Puriya, Dhani, and Shri?
I remember having read that the second constituent part is actually the old Raga Dhanashree , which is rarely heard these days .
Dhanashree is also a Raagang or a family of ragas , wherein ragas like Dhani , Bhimpalasi , Madhuvanti and Multani are included , according to Swarganga .
Parrikar differs on one point and says that Bhimpalasi has actually its own anga , which is different from Dhanshree-ang , though they are quite close . But he also agrees on the point that Bhimpalasi comes from the old Dhanashree in Kafi thaat .

Swarganga places Puriya Dhanashree in the Purvi-raagang , with Purvi and Paraj ; so that the connection with raag Dhanashree is not really clear for me , neither thaat-wise nor anga-wise . I might try to re-read the pertinent articles again one of these days , to grasp the intricacies of these obscure relations , that remount to other centuries where other ragas than today were prominent .

Of course Puriya Dhanashree has the sames set of notes as Shree and almost the same as Poorvi , so naturally one is inclined to associate them more with these ragas than with the ragas from the Dhanashree-anga .

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Christianamr

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Christianamr"
Quote:
Originally Posted by "chrisitar"
Is Puriya dhanashri ragas Puriya, Dhani, and Shri?
I remember having read that the second constituent part is actually the old Raga Dhanashree , which is rarely heard these days .
Dhanashree is also a Raagang or a family of ragas , wherein ragas like Dhani , Bhimpalasi , Madhuvanti and Multani are included , according to Swarganga .
Parrikar differs on one point and says that Bhimpalasi has actually its own anga , which is different from Dhanshree-ang , though they are quite close . But he also agrees on the point that Bhimpalasi comes from the old Dhanashree in Kafi thaat .

Swarganga places Puriya Dhanashree in the Purvi-raagang , with Purvi and Paraj ; so that the connection with raag Dhanashree is not really clear for me , neither thaat-wise nor anga-wise . I might try to re-read the pertinent articles again one of these days , to grasp the intricacies of these obscure relations , that remount to other centuries where other ragas than today were prominent .

Of course Puriya Dhanashree has the sames set of notes as Shree and almost the same as Poorvi , so naturally one is inclined to associate them more with these ragas than with the ragas from the Dhanashree-anga .
This video has a description about the relationship between Puriya Dhanashree and some old form of Dhanashree .



Instructional videos focused on ragas

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सहस्रनाम ततुलयम राम नाम वरानने |
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yussef ali k

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Reply with quote  #19 
Hi.
Chris' & all,
Older thread (sorry in adv. if I'll be writing redundancies - here goes).

I think apropos to mention:
Once I asked three Ud's from the same family about 'combi-raga/composing raga' (We were talking Ghulam H.Khan of Indore Gh., some1 "in their biradari" when we came to his Priti-Hindol raga invention...).
When asked about 'have you ever tried this?' they said (my words):

- they had (''If you know just one rag at Ud.-level you're able to do it - almost easy'');

- they said it had been a "vogue w/ the advent of RS period" but had somewhat faded by then (late '90s);

- "Ragas rise naturally from ragas, by the passage of time; there are many dead acchop rags because when some muso-families ended, so did their [jealously kept as khandan inheritance] rags";
(I believe the tastes of aristo-circles were where raga-fashions sprung from).

- "many of the rags created by mid-20th c. are already on the way to oblivion";

- " Ragas get popular because for some reasons people ASK for them: If you invent a rag, you should be playing it so it later becomes popular & ASKED for (...) but w/ so many beautiful ones we already have, there's almost no point in doing so. Then again if you feel you really must ...".

Hope this's of use. Have fun.
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Christianamr

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Reply with quote  #20 
Just highlighting the title of this important link , because it can not be recognized by looking at it :

" Purva and Puriya Kalyan: What’s the difference? "
Quote:
Purva (also called Purvya) belongs to a cluster of ragas bearing a family resemblance to raga Puriya in terms of swara material, and phraseology, melodic center of gravity, and therefore aural impression.

Swara material
Puriya: S r G M^ D N
Puriya-Dhanashree: S r G M^ P d N
Poorvi: S r G M M^ P d N
Puriya-Kalyan/Purva: S r G M^ P D N

What is common to all of them is komal (flat) Re, shuddha (natural) G, tivra (sharp) Ma, and shuddha (natural) Ni.

At the commencement of a concert at Los Angeles CA in 1991, Ustad Vilayat Khan introduced Purva with its ascent and descent.
Ascent: N r G M^ D N r' G'
Descent: r' S' N D P M^ G M^ r G\ N. r S

In a tape-recorded interview after the concert, the Ustad says that Purva is the same as the raga commonly known as Puriya Kalyan. He also argues that Purva is the right name for this raga and Puriya Kalyan is misleading because there is no trace of the characteristic Kalyan element in Puriya Kalyan. Although he does not identify the "characteristic Kalyan element", he probably considers the shuddha (natural) Re swara as essential for the Kalyan classification. If this is his argument, it has some validity.

...

Musicologist VN Bhatkhande looked at this issue in the 1940's, when Purva was a mature raga, and Puriya Kalyan had just begun to gain acceptance. Based on textual evidence, but very limited exposure to performances of Puriya Kalyan, Bhatkhande concluded that they are, indeed, different ragas. (Bhatkhande Sangeet Shastra. Vol.III, Ed.LN Garg, Sangeet Karyalaya Hathras, third edition, 1984. Pgs. 251-254)

...

It is difficult for two ragas of such subtle differentiation to co-exist with anything like comparable circulation or popularity. It is a different matter – though not entirely irrelevant – that even audiences of considerable cultivation would find the differences imperceptible. Consequently, it appears that Puriya Kalyan, with the commonly understood Yaman as its reference point, has remained in circulation. And, Purva, with the more profound Puriya reference point, is now rarely heard.

This point of view is at variance with contemporary scholars and learned musicians, including Ustad Vilayat Khan, who regard Purva as the original name for the present-day Puriya Kalyan. The debate can continue.
This way it´s easier to find it in the search results .

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सहस्रनाम ततुलयम राम नाम वरानने |
Sahasranāma tat tulyam Rāma nāma Varānane .
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