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Senior Member
Posts: 464
Reply with quote  #1 
I actually have created this topic because of a specific doubt I have .
For decades I have been listening to Classical Indian Music and have been aware of the formats of Tihais and Chakradhars when listening to them . To know these terms might have come later after having taken some classes and/or getting the relevant literature , but I knew what they sounded like before getting to know these terms .
Now there is an often used formula that goes like :

| Tere kete dha tere | kete dha tere kete |
| tere kete dha tere | kete dha tere kete |
| tere kete dha tere | kete dha tere kete |
|| Dha

Now , interestingly one of the definitions of Chakradhar seems to be just like the example I have written above : A Tihai repeated 3 times . ( or so I thought that my example would fit the definition ...)

 Ok , so I wanted to confirm that by looking at some articles and watching some videos , but to my great surprise I could not find any reference to any chakradhar similar to " my " example from above ...

What did I find ?
1) Some chakradhars where the constituent tihais were longer than my first part ( longer than terekete dha therekete dha terekete dha .) , resulting in a Chakradhar Tihai probably longer than 2 Avarthans . ( But my aim is to find the find the simplest formula - for ex : starting from matra 5 in teental and ending on the next sam , when the bols are played 4 times as fast as the theka ; or starting form matra 9 and ending after one more avartan if it is played twice as fast as the theka , so to say spanning 1 and 1/2  avartans .)
2) Some chakradhars that were like Tukras , repeated 3 times . In fact I have seen a definition like this , saying that a Chakradhar is a Tukra repeated 3 times . Funnily this same site has also a chapter for tihais , where the other definition is given ( chakradhar = 3 x tihai ) , but with no easy , basic , short examples , while for the tihais very easy examples are given ... [confused]

By reading more through some of these articles , I became aware of more types of Chakradhar ; but I am concerned with basic material that is to be found in articles and video lessons :
So could it be said that the 2 basic forms are
1) Chakradhar Tihai
2) Chakradhar Tukra ?

Or would that be too simplistic or too sophisticated or against the official textbooks ?

Many examples that I found for Chakradhars are Tukras repeated 3 times , spanning 2 avartans , with the structure 3 x 11 ( 11 + 11+ 10 ,  then sam 1 ) , suitable for 32 matras + sam . But I am looking for the way more easier example that I gave at the beginning .
Do you know of any articles or videos where it is mentioned ?

Could it be that it is more used in light or light classical music ? ( Even though I think to have heard it in Sitar or Tabla solos - maybe a little more sophisticated , but with the same lenght or structure , not longer . Maybe I will listen again to tracks where I thought it is inluded ) . Maybe it is then considered too short or simplistic to be included in an article , and they rather use more complicated and longer formulas to suit a sophisticated standard ?
Can " my " simple formula then even be called a Chakradhar ? Or would it be more like an extended Tihai ?

As a sidenote : It is often used in Carnatic Music , where it goes under the name Tirmanam or Arudi , and it can come after Mora and Korvai . ( Of course often with more complicated bols , but the same structure )

सहस्रनाम ततुलयम राम नाम वरानने |
Sahasranāma tat tulyam Rāma nāma Varānane .

Senior Member
Posts: 134
Reply with quote  #2 
My understanding of chakradar is the same as what David has defined:

It is essentially a tihai within a tihai that lands on the sam. Regarding the number of cycles it seems to be twice that of a tukra or other fixed composition, although it all depends on the speed you are playing at (double etc.).  
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