INDIAN MUSIC FORUMS

Sign up Calendar Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 2 of 3      Prev   1   2   3   Next
Carlito

Registered:
Posts: 10
Reply with quote  #16 
Hi.I think it s great that the sitar is still evolving and that theire s some
Western craftsmans that make marvels, still my hart goes for the traditional
Wood sitars but that said I didn't try the carbon sitar so could not judge the
Sound.

Surely if I found a carbon sitar or any other new material that sound as
good or better than my tun sitar I would probably buy.
I saw videos of shaid parves on YouTube and he was taking a long time
to tune the carbon sitar so it probably goes out of tune like other sitars?
It reminds me of the analog and digital cameras in some Way!
0
barend

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,102
Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Hamletsghost"
OK Friend Barend
I do understand & can sort of agree
BUT

Check out carbon sitars site - he CAN do traditional front carving for a C note upcharge.
Also his peacock inlays shown here: http://carbonsitars.com/
are great and while not TOTALLY traditional they ARE an extreme nod to the past and Indian Designs.
Yes saw that website. But the pictures look like computer images instead of real photos (?). Still I think these sitars don't look traditional enough for most people and especially not for classical musicians. Why not just have a more traditional look and 'carvings' instead of the more futuristic design? I am not against experimentation or improvements but as I said before a traditional look would increase the market for this in my opinion. Otherwise it will be drawn more in the fusion direction. The white one looks more Japanese then Indian. I kind of like it but I don't see it in a classical concert setting.
0
fossesitar

Registered:
Posts: 983
Reply with quote  #18 
If the new technology in fact offers advantages (I have mentioned a few) it will eventually be picked up and incorporated by the virtuoso players. I do not believe this will necessitate a move to fusion - I certainly hope not, musically I am a traditionalist. As for decor, new things will be tried but that is peripheral to the music. UVK always told me that as far as decor goes, less is more. He felt that the more decor there was on a sitar, the more it detracted from the sound and that is why his style of sitar ("GP") is so plain jane.

Carbon Fiber toombas are a really big improvement in durability and probably sound (at least consistency of sound) as well. And no, Carlito, a true carbon sitar (made almost 100% from carbon fiber) needs very little tuning and stays in tune for weeks. GF
0
CarbonSitars

Member
Registered:
Posts: 86
Reply with quote  #19 
I'll say a couple of things and then I'm gonna step out of this conversation:

The Figro sitar you guys are referring to is NOT a carbon fiber instrument. It has a carbon fiber and fiberglass toomba instead of a dried gourd. It is a traditional sitar otherwise. I've seen those videos was well, and I think that sitar has the same advantages and disadvantages as a traditional sitar.

As far as looks, I'm a luthier. I will make it look however you want. #001 wound up with a Japanese motif because that's what the customer wanted. I build whatever they ask. #002 is being started, and it will indeed feature a traditional look, complete with front carvings, pearloid penworked trim, and a brown finish. One advantage of carbon fiber is that I can make it look however you want. I don't make these for classical music or fusion music because what music gets played on them once they leave my hands is irrelevant to me. I just build them.

I don't really listen with my eyes, so sound quality is the most important element to me, and that's where most of my time has been spent in development. There have been numerous changes in between the prototype and #001, and once I post sound clips of that one, you can judge whether you like an all carbon fiber instrument or still prefer a wooden one.

Either way, you are a sitarist, and are a friend in my book.
0
coyootie

Registered:
Posts: 490
Reply with quote  #20 
I'll blow my own trumpet/pluck my own sitar:
I've built 2 sitars ,one of classic RS design, completely hand made by me down to the pegs. They both turned out very well, I have sound samples played by Roshan Jamal Bhartiya, a 10th generation Delhi sitariya, and he was amazed by them.
Here's links:
http://www.coyotespaw.com

click on "musical instruments".
I'd be willing to do custom designs too.
I've been building and repairing instruments for 44 years .
0
Bakersbites786

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 302
Reply with quote  #21 
USP wasn't playing a carbon sitar in that video.
0
barend

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,102
Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "CarbonSitars"
One advantage of carbon fiber is that I can make it look however you want. I don't make these for classical music or fusion music because what music gets played on them once they leave my hands is irrelevant to me. I just build them.
I respect that and also respect your work and the craftmanship you put in your sitars which are very nice.
I also see the advantages with the tuning stablitly of the sitar. That's why I would love to see some of these sitars in a classical Indian music setting. It is just that the more futuristic they look the less classical/traditional musicians will be using it.
0
AllenDS

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 279
Reply with quote  #23 
I have opinions that I want to be challenged to set me straight. I've been very picky about the sound of different acoustic guitars and I can hear the differences in tone woods. Carbon fiber guitars can be awesome in some ways but the consistency in overtones isn't as life-like as the unpredictability of wood. After a while, the awesomeness of carbon acoustic guitars gives me ear fatigue. But sitars might be different.

I'm thinking the roundness of the tone of a sitar body plus the reliance on jawari for a huge percentage of it's sound could make carbon fiber more desirable for a sitar than for an acoustic guitar. I'm hoping that's true, but I'm unsure. I love the woodiness of my present sitar, so it's difficult to imagine a made-made material having such a rich personality that's easy on the ears when played for long periods.

Thanks for the discussion!

-Allen

__________________
http://www.taxi.com/desomer
0
kalyan

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 261
Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "AllenDS"
I have opinions that I want to be challenged to set me straight. I've been very picky about the sound of different acoustic guitars and I can hear the differences in tone woods. Carbon fiber guitars can be awesome in some ways but the consistency in overtones isn't as life-like as the unpredictability of wood. After a while, the awesomeness of carbon acoustic guitars gives me ear fatigue. But sitars might be different.

I'm thinking the roundness of the tone of a sitar body plus the reliance on jawari for a huge percentage of it's sound could make carbon fiber more desirable for a sitar than for an acoustic guitar. I'm hoping that's true, but I'm unsure. I love the woodiness of my present sitar, so it's difficult to imagine a made-made material having such a rich personality that's easy on the ears when played for long periods.

Thanks for the discussion!

-Allen

That's interesting, a few years back I put a rack of sympathetic strings with jewari on a carbon fiber acoustic Rainsong guitar. I remember being skeptical about how it was going to work because the thing seemed so under built, and I was not sold on the material for an acoustic instrument but it worked out extremely well. The main thing was every note across the whole guitar had virtually the same type of sympathetic response, I have never seen an instrument with sympathetic strings before or since that has had as even of a sympathetic response. It was not my favorite guitar but it had what I would characterize as a very good acoustic tone, was very stable and was perfectly suited for the project. I imagine a CF sitar would have those same advantages so it could much easier to dial in a very consistent symp response, I also love the unpredictability of wood but sometimes it is a pain in the butt when your a trying to deal with wolf tones and dead spots.
Kalyan

__________________
Kalyan

goddenmusic.com. musicianmallusa.com facebook.com/goddenmusic
0
fossesitar

Registered:
Posts: 983
Reply with quote  #25 
I believe the future lies in utilizing a combination of materials.
In the Ultra we utilize carbon, 2 types of wood, and delrin. GF
0
CarbonSitars

Member
Registered:
Posts: 86
Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "AllenDS"
I have opinions that I want to be challenged to set me straight. I've been very picky about the sound of different acoustic guitars and I can hear the differences in tone woods. Carbon fiber guitars can be awesome in some ways but the consistency in overtones isn't as life-like as the unpredictability of wood. After a while, the awesomeness of carbon acoustic guitars gives me ear fatigue. But sitars might be different.

I'm thinking the roundness of the tone of a sitar body plus the reliance on jawari for a huge percentage of it's sound could make carbon fiber more desirable for a sitar than for an acoustic guitar. I'm hoping that's true, but I'm unsure. I love the woodiness of my present sitar, so it's difficult to imagine a made-made material having such a rich personality that's easy on the ears when played for long periods.

Thanks for the discussion!

-Allen
Much of my time has been spent addressing exactly this. It's possible, especially with vacuum bagging techniques, to make the surface and thickness of a carbon fiber instrument so perfect, that it makes the frequency response incredibly even and lifeless. I've developed some techniques and processes that introduce "imperfections" back into the carbon fiber to make it sound more "lifelike," like wood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by "fossesitar"
I believe the future lies in utilizing a combination of materials.
In the Ultra we utilize carbon, 2 types of wood, and delrin. GF
I agree. The future of the sitar is in the use of a combination of composites, sustainable woods, alloyed metals, and synthetic replacements for animal parts. The real key is to ensure that the materials aren't arbitrarily chosen for this property or that, but because they sound as good or better than the original materials.
0
nicneufeld

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,564
Reply with quote  #27 
I like the idea of the composite approach as well. Keeping with wood for the tabli and neck, for example, while replacing bone (bridges, nuts, posts) with delrin or other synthetic, replacing the tuners with metal/mechanical designs (looking to Lars' new offering to maybe prove that out), and replacing that Achilles heel of the tumba with something less prone to breakage, ala carbon fiber or something similar. Honestly I wouldn't think that changing the material for the tumbi, but leaving the soundboard and main body of the instrument as wood, would have a terribly dramatic effect on tone. But I do love the experimentation!

Regarding the mention of the highly custom instruments as expensive...well, yes, that's true. I think most of us grant and appreciate that the luthiers devoted to this are doing so as a labour of love and would be lucky to turn a min wage profit...but likewise, most of us amateur devotees and players aren't exactly burgeoning with ready cash and so it is still a major investment to sink several thousand into an instrument for us. Sure western classical musicians do that, but then, even the professional Indian musicians, I'm sure they are struggling to keep afloat sometimes themselves...the market for ICM is not what it once was, sadly. So saying that the custom American makers are barely making a profit does not controvert an assertion that these instruments are still out of reach for many of us, I think both are fair statements.

We all benefit from the innovators...even if we never commission an instrument from them. I'm sure the sitar shops in Miraj and Varanasi and elsewhere keep an occasional eye on the new designs and may slowly adopt some of the improvements. There will always be a place for the traditional instruments, but the new designs will come as well. But even considering that, think of what the sitar was 100+ years ago! I think its safe to say, there's been quite a bit of change and innovation, and that will likely continue:

http://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/mi/web-highlight/DP101380.jpg
0
fossesitar

Registered:
Posts: 983
Reply with quote  #28 
100 years ago it was 1914 NicNue, I would imagine the instrument in your photo would not be representative of the state of the art for sitar at that time - just to guess I would place the primitive seh-tar in your photo more around 1814 or earlier. Or perhaps this is a folk instrument . Do you have any provenance for this photo?
0
kalyan

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 261
Reply with quote  #29 
That looks a lot like an Afghan tambour ( with out the sympathetic strings)I scored recently, I have to make a bridge for it any way this gives me the idea of maybe doing jewari bridges just for fun.

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/yeman5/3093161a-0f45-4c8e-b1ce-a0d60e2c4a74.jpg
But there are many instruments this have that general shape from the middle east Persia and Asia.
Kalyan

__________________
Kalyan

goddenmusic.com. musicianmallusa.com facebook.com/goddenmusic
0
yussef ali k

Registered:
Posts: 322
Reply with quote  #30 
Hi, all.
Very interesting main topic.

Nic Neufeld,

On this side, I tend to agree w/ GF, but I can't help suggesting (as I figure you may have a quicker shortcut on this): just ask Y'know Who for pix of his Father/ Grandfather: THEY SURE were among the state of the art players around that time.

THAT'd be SOME posting ...

Have fun, y'all.

Y.
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.